Toxic Productivity Culture (Episode 49)

🎧 From stressed-out overachiever to balanced teen activist - Meera exposes the dark side of toxic productivity culture that's crushing students! In this eye-opening episode, a 16-year-old champion for change reveals what's really happening behind those perfect report cards and packed resumes.

Through bold truth-telling by a real teen living it right now, Meera breaks down why the "hustle culture" is destroying students' mental health.

This revolutionary episode explores:

• The dangerous myth of "doing it all" that's burning out an entire generation
• How college pressure is creating anxiety as early as middle school
• The hidden costs of treating teens like productivity machines
• Real strategies for pushing back against unrealistic expectations
• The journey from overwhelmed student to empowered advocate
• How to balance achievement with actual happiness and health

Perfect for: Students drowning in academic pressure, teens questioning the "more is better" mindset, young people seeking balance between success and wellbeing, and the parents, teachers, and counselors who want to support healthier achievement culture. Plus: Critical insights from a teen's perspective on revolutionizing education and creating a more sustainable path to success.

Transcript

Welcome to Mindshift Power Podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome. Today, we have with us Mira Shah. She is from New Jersey.

She is 16 right now, and she's gonna be a junior in high school this coming September. Right now is the year 2024 for all the future listeners, and, she's the one that reached out to me to be on the podcast. So, Mira, tell us, why did you wanna be on the show today? Yeah. So thank you.

So the main reason I wanted to be on the show was because around me, I'm seeing this, honestly, addiction to productivity that I think we really need to call attention to. Like, there's this constant competition to always be the best and always do more. And, for example, in my high school, there's this idea of everyone getting to the ivies, and kids' lives are shaped around, like, making this perfect resume from elementary school. Like, I literally know a fifth grader doing SAT prep, and, honestly, I think that's insane. It's not how you should be living your lives.

And scientifically, it's taking a huge toll. So number one, I think people are getting almost no sleep. Like, personally, at the beginning of sophomore year, I was averaging, like, three hours of sleep, and I honestly had to kind of reframe that. But kids are around me are just surviving on coffee, energy drinks, and this idea of taking breaks and getting sleep has just, like, constantly gone away. On top of that, you're seeing skyrocketing anxiety and depression rates.

And I even read this one study that I think it ranked excessive pressure to excel right among poverty with, like, factors hurting adolescent well-being. So just clearly, this isn't right, and I think it all stems from, like, parent pressure, peer pressure, and societal pressure that I really think we need to start reframing. Alright. Well, that was that was definitely a mouthful. And I can't disagree with you on a single thing that you said, because I see it too.

And I'm an adult, so I see things a little differently than someone who's actually in it like you are. But But I think it's important for the audience to hear from someone like you who's actually in the middle of this this this really horrible culture that we've created and are in the process of making worse. Let me segue into the, another question. We're really not a segue. Let me just ask you this.

From your perspective, as a 16 year old currently in this toxic productivity culture, Where do you see your generation ten years from now? Yeah. So in ten years, I think there's definitely gonna be some people who've achieved wonderful things, but the majority of us, I think, are gonna be burnt out and dissatisfied. Now it sounds a little pessimistic, but if you look at the corporate sphere right now, how many people do you see who are actually enjoying what they're doing? And that thing is literally just going on to us as kids.

There's so much pressure to just make a million dollars as soon as you get out of college rather than, like, actually pursuing something you like. And, obviously, money is important, but when that becomes your only motivation, you're suddenly not going to be happy, and you're never going to find something that satisfies you. And on top of that, I don't think we, have this culture of taking breaks and taking time for yourself anymore, and that's just gonna contribute to so many kids being burned out. Now you sure you're 16? Because right now, you sound like more mature than half the adults right now.

But for real. I don't care what nobody says, girl. You grown. You're you're you're a % right. And, again, I'm talking to the audience right now.

Listen to this from a 16 year old because there's adults who have been screaming from the mountain top some of the stuff she's saying right now, but this is from a 16 year old who clearly is seeing the same things. And, it's not good. I mean, we know in this country I don't have numbers in front of me right now, but we know that, you know, suicide is up high. This ties into this topic because one of the reasons suicide is high and lots of other mental health issues are so high is because of the culture that we are raising people in, the pressure that we're putting people on. Don't you agree?

Yeah. Honestly, I think that's such a good point because I think when you're pushing kids to this breaking point, you're going to see so many mental health issues. And I think it's time we started addressing the root problem, being things like pressure rather than trying to just put a Band Aid solution by being like, hey. If you're stressed, reach out to a couple people. Why don't we start addressing what is making kids stressed in the first place?

Because we really need to change the culture we live we're living in. Mic drop. Yes, girl. Absolutely. Absolutely.

It goes to what I say a lot. I don't I say it sometimes on this podcast, but in my as the mind shifter, you know, is my own, I say a lot. I talk a lot about dealing with the issues. And a lot of times, we are, I'm gonna give this analogy, you know, based on what you just said. When you have a weed, a weed, you can cut off the head of a weed, it's gonna grow back.

Right? And a lot of times, we're cutting off the heads of weeds. And okay. It was it was leaning to the left before. We cut it off, and now it's leaning to the right.

We cut it off, and now it's leaning north. We cut it off, and now it's leaning south. Alright. So no matter what we do, it's growing back because we haven't taken it out by its root. If you wanna get rid of a weed, you never just cut it.

If you wanna get rid of it permanently, you have to, you know, rip it out by its roots. And a lot of times, we are, you know, we're giving a baby a pacifier instead of the milk that he needs. And so we've talked a little bit about the problem. So coming from you as a 16 year old who's currently in our systems, what do you see as the solution? And I know it's multifaceted.

So what do you see as the solution coming from the adult part? Yeah. So I think a lot of it is a mindset shift kind of reframing how, a, you view productivity. Because productivity can be things like taking breaks and taking time for yourself. That all can contribute to this idea of success.

But, b, kind of reframing this idea of what you want your kids to do. Like, a majority of adults definitely just want their kids to be happy, but that isn't gonna come from a linear definition of success in a 6 figure job at the ripe age of 23. It's gonna come from doing things you actually enjoy and making sure you don't burn out by the time you get that job at 23 years old because all those things matter. Now another thing I really want adults to hear is that these things are actually taking a toll. Like, we've talked about the mental health effects, but let's look a little deeper.

Right? So a lot of times, I think adults talk about things like social media. Right? Oh my gosh. Social media is ruining kids' lives, and I completely agree.

But why are kids turning to social media? Well, it's a numbing mechanism from when you're literally on the edge of collapse. So I think, again, it just comes to this idea of adults, please know this is real, and please know that we have to address the root. And please know that there are ways that you can reframe this idea of productivity and success. Wow.

You just said a whole a whole lot, and you are you're oh, wow. You're so right. How we see success is a large part of why we're failing as a nation in many fronts. And you're right. Success is more than just a dollar amount in a fancy car.

You know? There's a lot of people that have that and commit suicide and end up on drugs. Why do we have so many rich people in rehab centers? I mean, people don't really think about that because you're not so because you're not really solving the problem. Money doesn't money solves a lot of things.

It does. It does not solve all things. Yeah. And, it doesn't make you happy at the end of the day. It'll make you happy for about twenty five minutes.

After that, you feel empty because all you did was get stuff and fake people. You know? So for the adults who hear what you're saying and maybe say, okay. Well, what can I do about it? What do you what do you have to say to them?

Well, what you can do about it is not put that pressure and have those conversations with your kids. Like, when your kids think that you expect them to get into an Ivy League school, they're gonna push themselves so hard to get into the Ivy League school because if anything, they care about your validation, and they care about this. So if you can start having these conversations from the time that kids are young, like, going to a small college is okay. Not having a perfect resume is okay. Living your childhood and actually being a kid is okay.

I think those conversations can really make a difference. I'm gonna add to that. I completely agree. I think that it's important to add to, speak the balance to that. Not because anything you said was wrong, but because I know that some people take things out of context.

So with that, what me and I know, Meeira, you can agree with me. What Meeira is not saying is that we should just be a free for all, and there should be no discipline and no goals and no structure at all. Because some people will take what you just said out of context and take it that way even though that's not what you're saying at all. That's not I just wanted to emphasize that's not what me are saying, and there has to be balance with all of that. Yes.

Absolutely. We want our kids to do the best. We want our kids to be the best. We want them to have status. We want them to feel accomplished, but at what cost?

Yeah. Hard work is so important, but it's not going to be hard work till the point of collapse. Yes. Do you hear that, adults? Because some of y'all adults are over 30, and you still haven't learned this lesson that this 16 year old understands right now.

When you look at their your friends around you, not just your friends, your your peers, what is the biggest thing that you think that you you see from them? Let me rephrase that. When you look at your peers around you, what do you where do you see them headed? What do you see is gonna happen next when you look at your peers? Honestly, collapse.

And I know this speaking from experience. When you push yourself so hard and you don't let yourself stop and you just keep doing more and more and more, you're going to collapse. And I know so many people have this idea that, like, okay. I'll push through it in high school, or I'll push through it for these next ten years, and then it'll be great. It's it'll all be worth it.

The pain is worth it if I get that amazing job. The problem is is that it's not worth it because all these things are going to have long term health effects, mental effects, and they're gonna lead to burnout. So that's where I see my peers headed, to be honest. Which is that's bad for all of us because healthier people creates a healthier society. Broken people create a very broken society, which is what we're living in right now.

What do you have to say to your peers? Yeah. So I think it's very similar to what I kind of just said, but being the best at everything and getting no sleep to get into a top college isn't worth it if you're gonna burn out by the time you get to that college. It just isn't worth it. So I think that we need to tell each other that there is so much of your life ahead of you.

And, honestly, like, the college you get into, the resume you have isn't going to be the end all be all. Sure. Working hard is so important, and doing the best you can is so important. But if you're going to just keep pushing yourself, it's not going to be worth it. So I'd urge my peers to kind of take a step back and look at how they, a, prioritize things around them.

Maybe pick a few things that you really wanna work towards, and then take your other time and take it for yourself. Take breaks, have fun, kind of live your life. Kind of achieving that balance can be so important, and make sure that you don't reach that point of total collapse. I just thought of another analogy of what you said. You said people are gonna collapse, and it doesn't matter that you accomplish all this stuff on paper by the time you're 23 if you're barely alive too.

Appreciate it. And I'm rewording what you said. It's kind of like it's kinda like, yes. I made it across the finish line with my car, but it has no wheels left. The engine is now gone.

You know, everything broke down. So now that I made it to the town, I can't go anywhere in the town. Yeah. Because I overran my car before I got there instead of taking breaks and doing it in a balanced way. I completely agree with you, and I'm really glad that you brought up this this topic.

What else do you wanna say to the audience? Yeah. I think we just need to take a step back and address a couple things. One, suffering isn't worth it when you're gonna collapse. I think that's the main point.

Two, we need to achieve balance. And three, like, these things are taking a toll. I feel like there's so many, like, negative stigmas around, like, oh, it's okay. Like, mental health isn't that bad. It'll it'll all be fine.

You know? Working hard comes above all. But it really does take a toll. And if you just look at the research, you'll see the devastating effects. So I really want everyone to just take a step back, look at what you're trying to do right now, and see how maybe you can reprioritize.

Adults and children, how can you figure out how you can balance your different priorities and figure out how you can both work hard, but also take time for yourself? Would you say what we really need is a cultural shift? Yes. A %. We live in a society that's literally obsessed with productivity.

It's an addiction to the point where, like, we can't stop ourselves. That needs to change. How do we change it? Yeah. Just those conversations.

Like, I feel like it's so it feels like, oh, well, how are we gonna change it? Isn't the world running on productivity? But if you're willing to stand up and be like, look. I'm going to do my work, and I'm gonna get it done, but I also need, like, an hour break. Those things can be balanced, and, honestly, you'll also be, quote, unquote, more productive when you take those breaks.

Like, it's scientifically proven you'll do better. So I think it's when we have those conversations that talk about, okay. Taking breaks are important. Not pressuring yourself to the point of total collapse are important. And we start making it so that that is the norm rather than every single, like, poster in the school being like like, do everything until you succeed.

Like, success is the best thing in the world. Reframe that ideology and make it so that kids nowadays know because the kids are going to be the future of this country. And if we have those conversations with our kids, we can actually change the way we have culture right now. So some of it some of the conversation needs to come from parents. Yeah.

I think part of the solution is for some of the quote, unquote, adults who are running things need to listen to you. They need to listen to people like you who are in the system, who are in the process of of going through these systems that this culture that we've created and not just shoving you off because, oh, you're young and dumb. You don't know nothing. Yeah. Because there are adults who have that attitude, which is real stupid.

I'm sorry. But with adults who have that attitude, I question your intelligence because you just that means that you you have not even opened your eyeballs to pay attention to what's around you. I do think part of the solution is getting the adults who are creating these systems to change their mindset. But let's, like, dive a little deeper into a subtopic off of that. Let's talk about college.

We're taught in America that college is the end all be all, and it is the only way to be successful. If you do not go to college, you are a loser. You will not be successful. You will not make a lot of money. And I'm here to tell you that is complete and total bullshit.

It really is. It is total bullshit. I have had people on the show talking about it because it is while college is necessary for particular careers, you wanna be a doctor, you wanna be a lawyer, you wanna be, you know, almost any kind of scientist, you do need a college degree, and I completely agree with that because the level of education needed for those fields is very vast. And you can make good money in those fields. However, maybe you were good with your hands and you wanna be a mechanic.

Maybe you wanna be a hairdresser. You might own a hairdresser shop and make more money than the engineer. You might be a hairdresser and be a, you know, a a hairdresser for the stars and make more money than most of your peers who have master's degrees. That's an actual fact. That does happen.

You know, we we it's important that we as adults make sure that we're letting you guys know that you need to think outside of the that box. Because for generations now, it's been driven into us, nailed into our us that, you know, college is the only way. College, college, college. But that's not true. College is the way for certain careers.

I completely agree. And if you're not sure, you're better to be more educated than less. But if you are sure, go for what you're sure for. And I do think that that's part of the pressure, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, Mira. I do think that that's part of the pressure that some youth are feeling, because the parents still are of that brainwashed mindset that and I do call it a brainwashed mindset that college is the only way.

Yeah. I definitely agree. And I think there's been a devaluation of a lot of careers. But if you take a step back, these careers are the ones that are running the world. As much as we need our doctors and we need our lawyers Yep.

Yep. Who isn't going to their local mechanic whenever their car breaks down? Who isn't going to the hairdresser, like, every like, once every couple months? Like, we need these jobs, and they are important. And on top of that, sure, college is important, and I understand that a lot of parents want their kids to go to college.

But why do you want them to all go to MIT and Harvard? There are so many smaller schools out there, which I don't have anything against you if you go to MIT or Harvard. They're definitely fantastic schools. But those smaller schools, you can still get a good job. You can still be happy.

You can still have an amazing environment. You don't need to go to these Ivy League. Like, honestly, they're just trying to make money off of you. Like, they're making tons of profit. Right.

You're % right. There are so many other things out there besides that linear definition of where we all need to go. I to to add to that, I I heard a report recently. I watched it somewhere. I don't recall where, but I wish I recall where so I could say it on on the air right now.

But, it's a it's an actual fact, and you can look it up. More and more companies are caring less and less where you went to school. Like, it used to be that, oh, you're Harvard. Well, I'm gonna put you at the top of my my candidates. A lot of them are like, you have a degree.

Do you know stuff? Okay. I don't care where you learned it. Like, there's a lot there's a growing now there's still people who who are gonna be, like, so impressed that, oh, you went to Harvard or MIT or wherever. But there's a growing, in the professional world, there's a growing amount of people that just don't care about that anymore because they they're starting to recognize how unimportant it is, how less important it is, and how much it doesn't hold.

We don't we we need to think about this as a country and as a people. Why do we think that certain colleges are better than others? Why do we think college necessary? Because those who own it have taught us to think that way so they can make money off of us. Duh.

Like you just said. Am I right? Yes. For sure. And if you look at the stats, I think I read this New York Times article.

But, like, the percentage of people who are in the top 1% who are going to the Ivy Leagues compared to, like, the working class, It is a question of money, and I'm not devaluing the people who do go to these fantastic colleges because I know they're, like, brilliant individuals. But it isn't everything, and it doesn't represent who you are. You can be so much more than just a school title. Right. And it's more important that you have understanding than just, education on paper because I have on more than one occasion, I have been promoted into positions for which I did not have the accreditation for.

Yeah. There's a phrase just learn through experience. Yeah. And I've also, I'll give you an example. There was a few years ago, when I worked at it I won't say where I worked because I'll I'll just because that's not the point.

I worked at a particular place, and there was this person that had two master's degree. I got promoted over her, and she got demoted. Oh my god. And I don't have two master's degrees. So, you know, it it it wasn't a matter of, you know, what she had on paper, what I had on paper.

It was I had the skill and the will, and they could see me doing it. And I had the respect of the people we were working with. That was the the key thing. And that, you know, at the end of the day, that's what mattered. And I'm saying that because if you are a teen listening right now, you are under some of the pressure that Meera's talking about.

I want you to know that that it's coming from coming from an adult. I can tell you that the world that you're growing up in is changing, and some of what your parents think is necessary. Some of it's correct. Some of it's old school and not true anymore. So I would advise for you as a teenager who's looking into your career, discover what the trends are for yourself so that you could put yourself in the right place and not be under undue pressure to go nowhere and be unhappy.

Mhmm. Is there anything else you wanna say to the audience? Honestly, the last thing I can think of is you've asked me what I think we can change in adult students, and I think there's also a shift that we do need in the education system itself because a lot of that pressure is coming from it. Like, if you look at the stats again, like, our education system was designed for industrial America decades ago. It doesn't apply to the world we live in.

And I think there's this overwhelming ideology of pushing kids in one direction even within our schools, but there's so many things that I think we can encourage. Like vocational schools, I'm seeing an increase of that, which is amazing because it allows kids to take another path. Right. But, also, having kids letting kids have more choice as they reach older and older years over what kind of classes they're taking, that can allow them to pursue their passion without feeling the pressure. Like, oh, I gotta take, like, this certain math class in, like, my senior year.

Having that choice, obviously, granted that you meet certain requirements and you do work hard and you keep up your grades, I think that can really help alleviate some of the pressure we're seeing today. I I wanna add one more thing to that. And, again, I'm talking to the teens. Depending every state that in in The United States and Canada, because this is for The US and Canada, all of our school systems are not the same. And because each state and each providence area, they can do their own things.

So sometimes the education in Mississippi, for example, very different than education in New York, which is probably different than education in Florida. You know, they they're because we can create our own rules, so to speak. Keep in mind, our education system is not created for everyone. Ideally, people say it's supposed to be blah blah blah, just just lip service, really. But in reality, our education system, traditionally speaking, anyway, is really only set up for, like, one type of learning, which doesn't apply to at least half of society.

How's that working out? It's not. Our numbers are dropping. In first world countries, we're at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to education, when it comes to science, when it comes to technology, and not in every way, but in many ways. Yes.

And that's bad. You know? And I just want to say that to any youthful any teenagers listening, keep in mind that our education system, it may not be built for you. Don't feel stupid if it's not. Sometimes it's a system that's stupid, not you.

Yeah. And I will end on that note. But thank you, Mira, for coming on. I really enjoyed talking to you on and off air. You are definitely an adult mentally.

I'm I'm very serious. You are mentally you are more mature than a lot of adults that I know, who don't even get some of the stuff that you're already seeing. So please continue to grow, and and continue to speak out and speak up, because some of us are actually listening. Thank you so much. And now for a mind shifting moment.

I wanna plant a thought seed in your head today. For you adults that are listening, I hope you noticed that this was a 16 year old girl with the maturity of someone well beyond her years. However, much of what everything she had to say, actually, was right on point. But I wanna point this out. There are a lot of other Miras out there.

It is not just her. Having worked with teens, I can tell you there are many of them that have a lot to say, and we should listen. Adults, we need to start really, truly listening to our youth. Yes, we do have to tell them what to do. We do have to teach them.

We do have to guide them in all of that. Absolutely. But we also need to make just as much effort at listening. The truth is an eight year old today and an eight year old when you grew up are not the same in any way, shape, or form. I have worked with and seen many teenagers who are extremely mature, but we slough them off and don't listen to them because we think they're young and dumb.

Perhaps you're old and dumb. Listen to them. They have a lot to say. And even if they say it in a little whiny teenage way, listen to content. Listen to what they're actually saying.

You cannot solve a problem you do not understand. If you want to solve a problem for our youth today, it starts by actually listening and considering what they have to say and their views. Please listen to our teens. Thank you for listening to Mindshift Power Podcast. Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter.

If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit Fatima Bay dot com slash podcast. Remember, there's power in shifting your thinking. Tune in for next week.