Episode 51: Necessary Estrangement

🎧 From family obligation to finding freedom - Janice Formichella's powerful story will transform how you think about toxic family relationships! In this raw and honest episode, Janice opens up about her journey of estrangement from her Mormon family and reveals why walking away from blood relatives can sometimes be the healthiest choice.

Through courageous truth-telling, Janice exposes the reality of family estrangement that many experience but few dare to discuss.

This breakthrough episode explores:

• The hidden signs that family relationships are damaging your mental health
• How cultural pressure keeps us tied to toxic relatives
• The crucial difference between imperfect family and harmful relationships
• Real strategies for setting boundaries and creating space
• The journey from family pain to chosen family peace
• How to build a support system when blood relatives aren't safe

Perfect for: Teens struggling with difficult family dynamics, students from high-control religious backgrounds, young people questioning family loyalty, and the counselors, teachers, and parents supporting youth through family challenges. Plus: Essential wisdom on choosing your own family and building healthy relationships beyond blood ties.

To follow or contact Janice, please click below.

https://www.instagram.com/janiceformichella/

Transcript

00:00.99
fatimabey
And welcome everyone. Today we have with us Janice Formichella. She is from Denver, Colorado, and she's a dating and breakup coach and a podcast producer. But today she's here to talk about her experiences, or at least parts of it. And we're gonna talk about why estrangement from relatives may actually be necessary. I'm gonna start off with giving you the definition of the word estrangement so that there's no confusion. the fact of no longer being on friendly terms or part of a social group. And in this case, we're talking about blood relatives in particular. So how are you today, Janice?

00:41.24
Janice
I am great. It's Friday. It's sunny and I'm happy to be here. Thank you.

00:46.30
fatimabey
It'll be Tuesday when this airs, though.

00:48.41
Janice
well

00:49.97
fatimabey
But thank you for coming on. I'm so glad that ah you decided to come on and um and talk with us because you have a whole lot to say. So I will just give the floor to you and tell you to briefly tell the audience your story.

01:03.70
Janice
So I am completely estranged um from my family of origin and just a brief rundown and it will be brief because it was almost 20 years in the making for me to finally get to the decision two years or a year and a half ago.

01:14.93
fatimabey
Yeah.

01:20.45
Janice
And I was raised in the Mormon faith. I ended up leaving after attending about a year and a half of BYU Brigham Young University. And right after I left, I began to be treated absolutely horrible by everybody in my immediate family. It was extremely painful. It was very lonely. I was left out of events. I was just treat it. I was spoken to very disrespectfully. I was completely ostracized from my siblings because my parents didn't want my bad influence, even though I was really being responsible. Really good student and really making a lot out of my life. So we went on and off with estrangement, sometimes not speaking for as many as three years. Me then coming back

02:14.32
Janice
trying to make it work over and over and over again. And frankly, in some cases, the treatment became worse and it was to the point where I felt that I didn't have enough support to interact with them because sometimes it would absolutely take me weeks to recover from being with them in person and just being so rejected.

02:40.77
fatimabey
Mm.

02:41.22
Janice
So yes, about a year and a half ago, it came to a head. Finally, I did have the experience that a lot of people have with estrangement of, you know, the event or that broke the camel's back. And it was so shocking and after so long being out of the church. and also trying so hard for so many years. I was completely devastated when the dust settled. I decided that I needed to finally cut ties and I did completely.

03:15.64
fatimabey
All right.

03:16.42
Janice
Yeah, so we're in the no contact stage of estrangement.

03:19.36
fatimabey
Okay. Okay. I want to mention this before we dive deeper into the the conversation. i'm And I'm talking to the audience right now. I want to say this. Real family isn't always blood related. You can choose your family. You can't choose your relatives, but you can choose your family. There's a difference between the two. And I think very often people feel like they they absolutely have to be attached to the family member because they're blood, but that's not actually true.

03:54.87
Janice
ah huh

03:59.23
Janice
I mean, if you think about it, this is the one relationship that is that people consider to not be voluntary.

03:59.67
fatimabey
So.

04:05.78
Janice
All of our other relationships, society encourages us to walk away from if we need to, except blood relatives.

04:05.78
fatimabey
Right.

04:14.36
fatimabey
Right. and we are yeah we'll be editing that part and this is what i was about to do before you came on and i was like oh yeah i gotta turn my phones i gotta put my phones off and then i obviously i didn't

04:27.29
Janice
Edit.

04:47.20
fatimabey
All right, go back to it. What what did you last say?

04:51.07
Janice
of the relationship with blood relatives being the only one that society doesn't see as voluntary.

05:02.07
fatimabey
Yes, because our cultures, and it's more than just one culture in the world, that teaches us that loyalty to blood relatives, notice I'm saying blood relatives, not family, is absolutely essential. I could tell you for myself personally, I have people that I consider family and they're not related to me at all. im I happen to have blood relatives that I am happy to have as family too, but I understand that that's not everybody's situation.

05:32.04
Janice
Uh

05:32.89
fatimabey
And I want the audience to know, and I know that you'll talk about this a little bit more.

05:37.16
Janice
-huh.

05:40.08
fatimabey
If you were listening and you have family members, relatives that are not the greatest, and you feel like you have nobody. Maybe it's because you haven't chosen your family and you're just sticking around relatives.

05:55.32
Janice
Yes, and that and society encourages, encourages us to.

05:55.95
fatimabey
Thank you, friends.

06:00.40
Janice
And that's why I wanted to talk about this topic this year, because it is quite taboo to speak publicly about cutting off your parents and your siblings. And for me, there was no other way that was essential for my well being. And I want people to know that this is a viable, appropriate option, in some cases.

06:20.98
fatimabey
Right, so let's dive into some details. so why why Let's talk about why estrangement from from blood relatives is sometimes necessary.

06:23.23
Janice
okay

06:29.41
Janice
Well, like I just said, it might be crucial for your wellbeing. I was just pushed down and just stomped upon for so many years that I just didn't see another way out. I saw having them in my life was absolutely doing more harm than good. And this is no behavioral treatment that I would ever put up with, with people who weren't my family. And I just decided,

06:54.29
fatimabey
Mm-hmm.

06:56.24
Janice
it also it had been so many years of trying and I just had to accept the fact that just because you're blood related to people does not mean that they care about you at all and I know that this is something I get pushed back from a lot and maybe will from your audience but just because you're blood related to someone doesn't even mean that they love you. I walked away from all encounters with them saying to myself they don't want me they Don't love me. Like, why am I pushing so hard for this?

07:30.48
fatimabey
Yes. And let's, let's talk about that right there. What you just said, because I think it's critical. I, because I have dealt with so many people and I've counseled so many people and especially with dealing with teenagers, you, your immediate relatives. are a lot of times where we get our self value from. And if your immediate relatives are telling you, you're a piece of crap.

07:48.43
Janice
Yes.

07:51.51
Janice
yes

07:51.67
fatimabey
And even if they don't say those words, but they treat you like that, that is what you begin to believe about yourself. So you said it was basically toxic. I'm rewording what you said. It was toxic to be around your relatives because of the mistreatment.

08:04.55
Janice
Yes, ah they live in Utah, naturally.

08:07.26
fatimabey
Yeah.

08:07.42
Janice
And whenever I would, like I said earlier, come back, I felt that I needed, you know, like weeks of therapy to just get overseeing them in person. And I didn't have those resources necessarily at at the time.

08:16.54
fatimabey
Yeah.

08:20.58
Janice
And also me living in Colorado, I mean, they had a family reunion. one year and didn't tell me, even took a family photo, sent it to me. I mean, these are things that just absolutely devastated me. Why am I pushing for this when you know these are people who don't want me? I know that this is so harsh to say and and very may be even upsetting to people, but I felt for years that I was the throwaway child.

08:40.90
fatimabey
Yes.

08:51.08
fatimabey
Mm.

08:51.32
Janice
That's not a good thing to fail.

08:52.79
fatimabey
No, and you're out you're not a throwaway.

08:52.96
Janice
It was better for me to walk away.

08:55.40
fatimabey
Yeah, and you're not a throwaway. But when we have when we have our blood relatives who were taught, were taught as as in our cultures, and because it's not just the American cultures, many cultures around the world, we're taught that they're the ones that are supposed to care for us.

08:57.24
Janice
Thank you.

09:04.97
Janice
and huh

09:10.82
Janice
Yeah.

09:10.82
fatimabey
We're taught they're the ones that if no one else cares for you, they should. But I want to point out what Janice just said. just because they're related to you doesn't mean that they actually love you and care about you and that is hard to hear and a lot of people might be like well no that's not true and i have seen it so it is true i have seen it i have counseled people i've i one of the things i focus on is helping people to build self-esteem because i think it is critical to any success in any area of your life if you don't believe that you're worth anything you will act worthless and and i just know that that is true so

09:23.01
Janice
No, I believe that strongly.

09:45.77
fatimabey
just because your family, your quote unquote family, but really your blood relatives is supposed to care about you does not mean that they do.

09:56.35
Janice
Yes, and actions.

09:56.83
fatimabey
Now, many of you, many of you might have relatives that do care about you. And I know many of you do, which is beautiful.

10:04.45
Janice
Yes.

10:04.72
fatimabey
However, Even if they're imperfect in in how they act all the time, but they still show you that you value that you're valuable to them. That's good. You don't you don't necessarily have to cut them off. but but And I have to say that because sometimes people take things to the extreme.

10:16.61
Janice
No.

10:20.96
fatimabey
But it's so important that you do not take the value that they give you if they tell you you're worthless.

10:31.07
Janice
And I'm someone with a huge amount of confidence and self-love.

10:31.31
fatimabey
i

10:35.35
Janice
And I was like, why am I doing this to myself? I deserve so much better.

10:39.33
fatimabey
who I would say get around people who help build you up and not tear you down. Whether they share the same bloodline as you or not. if they are tearing you down and that's all they, I don't mean if, and that's all they ever do. I don't mean that they're not perfect and they have moments where they hurt your feelings. That's normal. I'm talking about every time you see them, you're you're feeling like Janice did.

11:06.14
Janice
you Yeah.

11:08.07
fatimabey
You're feeling worse than when you got there.

11:09.82
Janice
Yes. Yes.

11:11.03
fatimabey
Something's wrong and you might want to consider cutting them off.

11:12.06
Janice
Yeah.

11:14.55
fatimabey
I don't care who they are. They're not your family. They might be just a relative.

11:20.59
Janice
Yes. And also rather than just jumping right to cutting them off, try and create some space first and and see how that and see how that goes.

11:27.75
fatimabey
Yes.

11:29.62
Janice
And you'll come to the you'll come to your answer the more that you do that and fill into it.

11:34.70
fatimabey
Excellent advice. Excellent advice. Don't just immediately cut them off. Give them space first. And I want to clarify to the audience, um Janice and I have already talked already talked about this, but cutting off relatives is sometimes necessary, but it should not be the first thing you go to.

11:51.88
Janice
right yeah Yeah, absolutely.

11:53.78
fatimabey
It should not be the first thing you can go to. We're not saying, you know, your your mama pissed you off last night, never talked to her again. No, she pissed you off.

12:01.10
Janice
Yeah, this is a last resort.

12:03.62
fatimabey
Right. It's a last resort, but sometimes it is a necessary resort.

12:06.85
Janice
Yep.

12:07.68
fatimabey
um' Let's talk about what are the, what are the indicators? What are the signs? Because sometimes people are on the fence and they're listening to us and they're like, am I in that situation? Should I be doing that? I don't know, but that's my mom. I'm supposed to be dedicated to her. That's my sister. we're You know, I'm supposed to always be around her. That's my cousin, whatever. My grandma, whoever it is, is this me? So what are some of the indicators that we can tell people to kind of look for in their situation?

12:37.20
Janice
I loved what you said about feeling worse after you engage with these people. I would absolutely look at that and then ask yourself why you consider to get burned, why you consider to allow, why you continue to allow yourself to to get burned. And so, yes, look at that. And that was very much my situation. i looked forward to seeing them so much and came back to Dunburg just absolutely devastated. And then I will also say, going back to what I said earlier, try and create space. Try and have boundaries. Set rules with yourself about the types of engagement you will have with them, maybe how many times a year.

13:26.75
Janice
You will have engagement with them maybe one or two holidays a year. Try it out and then see what happens over time. One of the key indicators for people who do end up cutting their family off is that it It's related to how many times you try to make it work. And the more times you try and make it work, the closer you will go to deciding to cut them off. And so I would definitely look at that first.

13:52.04
fatimabey
Right.

13:54.57
Janice
If creating space and boundaries works, and if it doesn't, maybe start to think in this in this way. as Maybe try to think of estrangement as a possibility.

14:05.88
fatimabey
Let's talk about what what creating space looks like, if it works. ah One of those things is progress. So progress is a process. so If you create space and it makes things better, that's good. That means there's progress. That means there's hope.

14:20.84
Janice
yeah

14:21.84
fatimabey
You don't necessarily have to cut them off, but just because it doesn't get perfect doesn't mean that there's not progress. And I feel the need to point that out to people because I know that a lot of times people don't, you know, they think that there's, they go from extremes. So they think, well, if it's, if I, if, if I try one thing and it's not perfect, well, then it didn't work. If there's progress, then it did work.

14:45.65
Janice
Yes.

14:46.62
fatimabey
If something changed and something got better, that means there's hope for other things that changing it better. No one, and I do mean no one, no relationship, family, romantic, any kind, gets better overnight.

14:59.58
Janice
Well, and how you how you feel about yourself and how you feel about the situation.

14:59.62
fatimabey
None.

15:04.24
Janice
And if you sense any or if you experience any sense of relief from from making space, that's progress. You know, this is all about how you feel about about yourself. And yeah you might just be so relieved to only see them a couple times a year. or do what I did, which is not live in the same state as them. I was in Australia for five years before I moved to Denver. And I was very mindful of not moving to Utah, being like close enough, but not too close. And for a lot of people, that is what really works.

15:40.44
fatimabey
Yeah, that's very good advice. um The other thing is,

15:49.98
fatimabey
I want to bring up another topic that's kind of related to this because I think it's very related to the the subject. We look at people who are ah drug addicted. Sometimes there are people that will cut off their relatives who are addicts. for their own further on for their own safety, for their own sanity.

16:06.65
Janice
That is a ah main reason.

16:11.03
fatimabey
Sometimes that is necessary. And I wanted bring i wanted to mention that because I think that that is something that is extremely relevant in this country right now. um We have a lot more addicts than we ever did in the history of this this nation. And sometimes it is necessary to cut people off. And most people try everything they can to not do that first. But don't feel bad if you're listening right now and you cut off your heroin addict daughter, cousin, sister, brother, or whatever they're you know whatever theyre their substance of choice is. You're not necessarily wrong. And sometimes those relationships can be repaired when they get healed.

16:57.31
fatimabey
and come back and try to make, you know, try to make relationships work again.

17:02.60
Janice
And.

17:02.56
fatimabey
And that does happen. And I'm very much in support of people in recovery. However, and until you are in recovery, sometimes you need to be cut off. Sometimes you do more damage. So I want to piggyback on on what you were saying, Janice, about that you they you always felt worse and felt like you needed so much therapy after being with them. I would say if they make your life worse, that you might wanna cut them off. And not just blood relatives, anyone, anyone.

17:34.14
Janice
And think long and hard about it. These are not flippant decisions. These are things that you need to do a lot of self-reflection on before you make the choice.

17:38.68
fatimabey
Right, right.

17:44.48
fatimabey
Is it a good idea to talk to others about it?

17:46.96
Janice
Yes, definitely. And that's one reason that I am doing this. Not necessarily is everyone going to come and talk to me, but I want people to hear my story. I want people to hear about my process. I want people to be able to to relate and know that they're not alone. And that's why I love to speak on this issue.

18:07.60
fatimabey
Let's talk about, but just so that we're balanced, and name a couple of things. We talked about a little bit, but name a couple of things that are not necessarily bad enough for estrangement so that people are a little more clear um on whether they should be considering this or not.

18:25.10
Janice
immediately what comes to mind is that if there is not a pattern of behavior, then I would not just become estranged and cut off your family from maybe one fight or one incident.

18:39.14
fatimabey
Right.

18:40.51
Janice
I you know plead with anyone listening to not just walk away because of one blow up. This is a decision that is life changing. This is a decision that is extraordinarily painful. And so I would absolutely say one fight, one incident is not worth going through this.

19:02.11
fatimabey
you

19:02.75
Janice
Promise. I promise, yo.

19:05.11
fatimabey
That's excellent advice. Very, very good thing to point out. um Yeah, one little fight. yeah We all make mistakes. We all say things we don't mean.

19:12.62
Janice
Yes.

19:13.42
fatimabey
We all have attitudes at times and tempers. That's just normal human behavior. But when it's a pattern, that's when you have to reconsider.

19:20.75
Janice
Yes.

19:22.43
fatimabey
So very, very good advice. What advice do you...

19:24.56
Janice
Be non-emotional about it. That's how I was. I looked at everything.

19:28.47
fatimabey
Mm-hmm.

19:28.68
Janice
I even wrote things in my journal. And when I finally got to the point of sending a very difficult email to my parents, I really did it from a place of, like I said, non-emotionality rather than in the heat of the moment.

19:43.61
fatimabey
Very good point. the Very valid point, Janice.

19:47.71
fatimabey
It's not that we need, you know, when you say remove the emotions, it is true that we need to do that. We need to think from our brains and not our emotions. Think from your your logic, not your emotions, when you're making a decision.

20:01.87
Janice
Yeah.

20:02.05
fatimabey
ah It doesn't mean the emotions disappear or they aren't there. It doesn't mean you don't cry through it because you might.

20:07.24
Janice
Oh yeah, I did.

20:07.33
fatimabey
But it means that, yeah.

20:07.92
Janice
And still today it's, it's painful.

20:11.36
fatimabey
Yeah, but it's especially painful because they were all you ever knew.

20:16.89
Janice
And I tried so hard and they're my family and it still makes me feel once in a while kind of bad for myself, but also I am so proud of what I did.

20:19.72
fatimabey
Yeah.

20:27.23
fatimabey
Do you have other family now?

20:29.79
Janice
I have a lot of very, very close friends. I am really lucky to have gotten involved with the ex-Mormon community here in Denver.

20:37.69
fatimabey
Hmm.

20:39.49
Janice
And it is, I always say that hanging out with them is kind of like hanging out with a bunch of cousins, because we all have the same culture and language and ways that we grew up that are so out there, you know, and a lot of people have left the Mormon Church, you know, in the last 10 years.

20:54.73
fatimabey
Yeah, yeah.

21:01.46
Janice
And so I'm really, really lucky to have gotten involved with them. And I have some friends really all over the country who I know would be there for me and no matter what, who I would pick up the phone for at four in the morning. I will say because of my experience with my family of origin and just being so disappointed with how it turned out, it's not as important for me to use the term family. So I i will say put that out there, but I do have people close close enough to me that I would probably consider being as close as family, but I don't really use the term a lot.

21:42.11
fatimabey
Well, because of the definition that I used in the beginning, I'm going to say you found a new family.

21:46.01
Janice
Yes. Yeah. And I am so, so lucky.

21:47.18
fatimabey
So.

21:49.74
Janice
I know that.

21:49.96
fatimabey
Mm hmm. And that's the thing. I said in the beginning, relatives, you can't choose the family. We can choose.

22:00.26
Janice
Yes.

22:00.31
fatimabey
We can choose who's attached to us. We can choose who's our support system because we all need a support system. Even if it's just two or three people, we all need somebody. We're humans. We're built that way. And so your family, you can choose it within the family, within the context of what I defined in the beginning.

22:18.15
Janice
And I've gotten so selective as to who I've let in my circle because of this.

22:18.47
fatimabey
Um,

22:21.73
fatimabey
you should be, you should be absolutely. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And you 100% should be.

22:27.29
Janice
Yeah.

22:28.56
fatimabey
um What advice do you have for a teenager who is,

22:36.37
fatimabey
in it who who might need to, because I've seen this, who might need to estrange himself from their family and they're in a situation right now and they don't know what to do.

22:50.87
Janice
teens are one of oh yes I I'm sure it is and I will say I started fantasizing about becoming either distanced or estranged from my family when I was a teenager for sure.

22:51.05
fatimabey
It's a little bit different for a teen.

23:03.62
Janice
I will say you've got to put your safety first and so I would consider consider that whether it is safer to

23:08.11
fatimabey
Yeah.

23:12.87
Janice
stay at home safer to stay in touch with your parents during your first year of college or not. So let's please please please consider that. I would also make sure that you are bonding with someone else and really keep that in mind because like you said we all need it and this is going to be rough and so make sure that you really what I call water your relationships with people so that you have others to lean on

23:36.78
fatimabey
Mm hmm.

23:40.28
Janice
And then this is a bit more practical, but something that I wish I would have done earlier and that I would really encourage teens to do is really go out and invest in a vocation and get yourself you know some type of job that you love or career path, because these are not people you'll necessarily be able to to rely on. And it will become a lot easier to navigate young adulthood if you have that. And learning some of the practical skills was also something that I had to learn later in life.

24:08.30
fatimabey
Mm-hmm

24:14.58
Janice
For instance, how to manage money was something that I was never taught in the Mormon Church. A woman is not really expected to have a job or really deal with that. And so I'd say, yeah, a vocation and learning about money.

24:30.45
fatimabey
Mmm, very good advice very very sound advice.

24:31.15
Janice
Yeah.

24:33.90
Janice
Thank you.

24:34.53
fatimabey
I will also add to that um because I know What's out there when it comes to teenagers and situations that I've seen that are far more common than they should be I'm gonna make I'm gonna use this example This teenage this teenager has a grandmother who is just a

24:46.05
Janice
Yeah.

25:00.63
fatimabey
Toxic. And let me explain how she's toxic. This grandmother talks about everybody, like a dog behind her back, including her own children to her grandchildren. just negative all the time, a negative gossip in the family. And some people might go, oh my God, ah great yet people do exist like that. I've seen it and I've seen the damage that it done that it does. And I've also seen a granddaughter who who basically will have nothing to do with her grandmother anymore because of how much drama she starts within the family and she just will not associate with her.

25:36.68
fatimabey
And I, i ah I agree with her because of, I'm not saying every single detail on here, but, um, just because of the damage that she does within the family and how messed up a lot of them are because of her being that way.

25:36.98
Janice
It's very brave.

25:54.68
fatimabey
And I know somebody listening right now might have somebody who's trashy like that. And they, and I mean, let's just be real. Just that's really, that's just trashy and They might be your mama, they might be your grandma, it might be your uncle, but somebody within the family who's, youre you're supposed to respect, supposed to, but you can't respect somebody who acts like that.

26:14.49
Janice
Yeah.

26:18.11
fatimabey
How can you respect somebody when you are 16 and more mature than them? Hello.

26:23.01
Janice
And they're not respecting you either. That's a horrible way for a grandmother to teach a young woman how to be.

26:29.88
fatimabey
Yeah, so yeah.

26:30.46
Janice
And we do want to look to our elders to give us some sort of guidance as to our character.

26:34.08
fatimabey
We should. We should be able to. And I think for them, I think in most situations we can.

26:39.04
Janice
Yeah.

26:39.54
fatimabey
Um, but there are situations where we can't, and I want to address that because that's real. It's very real for a lot of Americans right now. And so I want to, if that's you or that's your sister or whoever. You it's okay if you do and you're always told you gotta be loyal, you gotta be loyal, you gotta be loyal. But sometimes that loyal is bullshit. You gotta be loyal to what?

27:05.00
Janice
Yeah.

27:05.09
fatimabey
What are you really being loyal to? I really want you to question that. The first person you need to be loyal to is your damn self.

27:11.24
Janice
Yes. Yes.

27:12.11
fatimabey
For real.

27:13.13
Janice
Mm-hmm. Yes.

27:13.70
fatimabey
You need to be loyal to yourself first because everybody doesn't have a healthy family dynamic. That's reality.

27:22.47
Janice
Yeah.

27:23.38
fatimabey
In your case, it was Mormon. In some cases, it's not an institution or a religion. It's just a jacked up family. And so if you if if that's what you have, okay, that's what you've got. Now, sometimes you can have people in your family that are messed up, but they're still loyal to you. They're still good to you. They're still there for you. They'll still listen to you.

27:42.59
Janice
yeah yeah and the way we

27:44.33
fatimabey
Don't cut them off. They're imperfect and they have issues. Guess what we all do? But that doesn't mean they need to be cut off. cut them off when they are causing damage. Repeatedly, as Janet said earlier, as a pattern, they are causing damage. And I know there's, go ahead.

28:02.65
Janice
The way we let our family members treat us and the way we engage with our family members will often reflect how we engage and show up in romantic relationships and with friends.

28:12.65
fatimabey
Yep. Mm hmm.

28:14.44
Janice
There is so much overlap.

28:14.57
fatimabey
Mm hmm.

28:16.36
Janice
It is also something that I'm interested in studying. and so Practice creating boundaries. You're going to need to know how to create and execute boundaries in all of your relationships. And so maybe if this person is a bit toxic, you take the responsibility of saying, okay, so how do I feel comfortable showing up with this person?

28:29.65
fatimabey
Mm-hmm.

28:36.36
Janice
What boundary or rule do I set with myself around that? And then execute it.

28:43.03
fatimabey
That's right.

28:44.23
Janice
First.

28:44.62
fatimabey
Now, Janice, tell people what else you do and what services you offer and how they can find you.

28:52.87
Janice
I am a breakup and dating coach and I work with people one-on-one to overcome their breakups and, you know, let it add life and possibility to your life rather than break you. And then I also offer one-on-one support to people who might be ready to start dating again after a hiatus.

29:14.73
fatimabey
All right, now, can they find you?

29:16.22
Janice
I would love it if you would go over to Instagram, Jenisformachella, and say hi to me. I hang out there all the time. If you send me a DM about hearing this episode, I'll send you something so ah fun in the mail. And also, if you're going through estrangement, yeah, just pop in and say and say hi.

29:31.32
fatimabey
yes

29:36.59
Janice
I'm here to support other people who are going through this.

29:40.03
fatimabey
Yes, and sincerely audience listening. If you have questions about a strange winner or wonder if you're on the edge of it and you just ah she's a good person to talk to about that because that is something she's very well versed in i'm and can help to give you the balance that you might need if you're on the edge.

29:50.12
Janice
Thank you.

29:53.13
Janice
on

29:58.65
Janice
And resources and maybe a little bit more about my story.

29:58.54
fatimabey
So.

30:02.42
Janice
I desperately want to to help people and to let people know that you are not alone, you're not crazy.

30:02.68
fatimabey
Yeah.

30:10.04
Janice
This may really be an appropriate option for you.

30:14.41
fatimabey
Yeah. And I want to add to that. If you're listening, if your family has put you to pastor or treat you like a black sheep, sometimes it's not because of what's wrong with you. Sometimes it's because of what's right with you.

30:30.37
Janice
Yes. And I did start to feel that way after a while. My siblings hadn't left the church. And yes, I just felt like there was resentment building maybe around how I was living my life or I don't know, you know, being free.

30:39.46
fatimabey
Yeah. Mm hmm.

30:44.47
Janice
Who knows? But yeah, I felt like I was so, so happy and nobody was cheering me on. And I always thought, yeah, maybe it's it's because of that and I'm doing everything right.

30:51.58
fatimabey
No.

30:54.93
Janice
And I don't need the church to do it.

30:57.46
fatimabey
Yeah. I just want to add one little thing at the end here. um We're talking about family estrangement. Now in Janice's situation, it it was the Mormon Church. But I want to also say many Jehovah Witnesses can tell the exact same story that she can. So if you are a former Jehovah Witness and you've been outcast by your former family, it is okay to find a new one and there's nothing wrong with you.

31:28.03
Janice
We often say that Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are like cousins when it comes to the type of religion.

31:33.80
fatimabey
And in a lot of way. Yeah, they they are. They are in many, many ways. So I get that.

31:39.77
Janice
Yes.

31:40.01
fatimabey
um Well, thank you, Janice, for coming on. um And audience, she will be back on again. So get used to her.

31:47.96
Janice
Thank you so much. This is such an important topic. But as I said earlier, taboo. And I appreciate you being willing to to face it and share it with your audience.

31:58.09
fatimabey
Thank you.