Therapists - Is Mine Any Good? : Ep #62

🎧 Breaking the Stigma: A Therapist's Guide to Finding Your Perfect Mental Health Match! Join 30-year psychotherapy veteran Donna Simas as she reveals what makes a great therapist and why mental wellness isn't just for those in crisis.

In this candid conversation about modern mental health, Donna shares powerful insights about therapy in the digital age and how to find the right support for your journey, whether you're dealing with everyday stress or deeper challenges.

This enlightening episode explores:

• Why the "therapist as robot" approach fails and how to spot authentic mental health professionals
• The critical differences between having a depressive moment versus clinical depression
• How social media and modern parenting created new challenges for teen mental health
• Why progress in therapy looks different for everyone - and that's perfectly okay
• The power of balancing professional expertise with genuine human connection
• What red flags signal it's time to find a new therapist
• Why seeking therapy is a sign of strength, not weakness

Perfect for: Teens considering therapy, parents wanting to understand modern mental health challenges, anyone seeking therapy but unsure where to start, mental health professionals looking to better connect with young clients, and anyone interested in breaking down mental health stigmas. Plus: Essential insights on finding the right therapeutic fit and building a foundation for lifelong mental wellness.

To learn more about Donna C. Moss, please click on the link below.

https://www.donnacmoss.com/

Transcript

Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome everyone. Today, we have with us Donna C. Moss. She is in Westchester County Of New York.

She is a trainer, speaker, and most importantly, psychotherapist specializing in teens and college students. You all know if you've been listening to me, I am constantly pushing therapy. Well, today, we're gonna talk about how to tell if you have a good therapist. Because we can say get a good therapist all day and night, but how do you know if you have one? So and I have the perfect person to talk about that with.

How are you doing today, Donna? Good. Thank you, Fatima. I'm so glad to be here. I'm glad to have you.

So tell everyone how long have you been a psychotherapist? About thirty years, or more in the field, yes. Wow, so that's a long time. I guess so. Honestly, that's one of the reasons why I have you on here is because you have a perspective that the rest of us can't have.

Mhmm. Who've you've seen different generations and you understand this generation as well. And, so your perspective is to me very important because I can't have the perspective that you have. So in the thirty plus years that, that you've been doing psychotherapy, what do you see are the biggest changes that you have seen in our youth? Right.

So that's a question that is is very popular now because of the teen mental health crisis that has been identified in our country from the time during COVID. So the good news is that there's much less stigma now and people have a better access to therapy and prevention services and better diagnosis, better medications. All those things are good, but there's still barriers as we know because of the cost and other factors that therapists aren't paid enough. They don't have benefits a lot of times. So there's still a lot of people that struggle to find the right therapist at the right time, which, especially for young people, they don't can't always navigate it, especially if they want it to be confidential.

So What what do you think what do you see as the different issues? Let's say, a teenager from 1994 Yeah. So to 02/2024. Right. So we're lucky we have this guy, Jonathan Haight.

He wrote a book called The Anxious Generation, which explains in-depth the negative impact of social media combined with the uptick in sort of over parenting or tiger moms or or, fears of the outside world that made the parents more cautious. And then the kids went underground, so they had all this especially girls who spend twice as much time online than boys do. And the girls basically went down the rabbit hole and became more anxious and depressed because they spent more time in their room on their phone. And we could see how that was an sort of obvious change that happened. He says in 02/2011 was the biggest uptick in that cohort of the depression and anxiety combined with the fear in the world that that group and that's when they got the the iPhones.

That's when the iPhones became ubiquitous at the same time. So we know there's a strong correlation there. So what I'm hearing, the average teenager was just born around then. Yeah. So that that means that the average teenager doesn't even know a time before all of this.

Right. Correct. Correct. And this has been brought up a lot and, you know, we were sort of more like free range kids or whatever. But Mhmm.

As my 23 year old daughter pointed out, she she and her friends went to see the, the moon eclipse thing, the totality thing. And she said it was '24. Yeah. Yeah. And they she said it was the first time that her generation came together for something positive because they were born into 09/11, and then there was COVID.

And, you know, and now there's even a million other things going on in the world that are really, really negative for them. So they've had a rough generation. I, the reason I'm asking, talking to the audience now, the reason why I'm asking Donna these questions, I'm constantly talking about how this generation is different than us. And as adults, we need to stop trying to compare ourselves to them because they're we are not the same. We are growing up on different planet.

They are growing up on a different planet. And Donna, as a psychotherapist, can point out the specific details to that as a professional, and you can hear some of those things. And if you're a teenager listening, I want you to know that there are some adults here who we do actually understand. We get it. And, and I just think it's important to to note that.

Now when it comes to all of that is very relevant to the rest of this conversation. So when it comes to therapists, all therapists are the same. Right? And every therapist is for everyone. Right?

Right. You could even do it with a robot or AI. No. Just kidding. No.

I mean, of course, we all know that the fit is paramount, not who has the most letters after the name. All of those things we know. And, you you know, that's why I always say at the end of a first session, do you feel comfortable with me? Me personally. It's a personal trusting relationship.

If you don't feel comfortable, there's no space to do this. There really isn't. I don't wanna add because it irritates the crap out of me. You hear me saying it all the time and you it's on my website. I can't stand talking to a clinically trained robot.

Mhmm. Mhmm. And some people are nothing more than that with a title. And I would say, and you can correct me if I'm wrong or reword it if you want, Donna. I would say to youth listening and you're you were willing to seek out therapy and you wanna find a good therapist, you're not sure what to, you know, what to look for at this episode's for you.

If you find that the person you talk to feels more like a robot than a human Mhmm. Might be time to say peace out. I wanna look for someone else. Right. And just like anything else, I I've heard for years people who spend more time comparing car brands than therapists.

Like Oh, good point. You're entitled to do some research, just see where you feel comfortable, and then land in that place. That's that's your prerogative, and and you absolutely should be encouraged to do that. And, also, I I use the process as my guide. Like, I'm listening.

And and, of course, the Zoom and the phone create certain barrier to, let's say, intimate intimate conversations, but not after a while, you get to know the person. It's it's totally fine. So the therapist should not be robotic and should not be have a script and should not just do workbook sheets. They should get to know you. Yes.

Because it's it's all about your humanity, not just about a list of things you're supposed to know and concepts you understand. Right. And empathy. And then also the therapist might not take you, and that's okay too. Like, if someone comes to me and says, I have a six year old boy with ADHD and he's bouncing off the walls, is that for me?

No. I do young girls, you know, young adult girls, teenagers, 30 something women. That's you know, I'm not gonna be starting to work with, you know, other groups of people that I don't know that well. And it's such a relief as an older therapist now to be able to say, you know what? That's not my thing.

And you know what? That is good. A really good therapist does have a special specialty, I would say, or a niche. Yes. It I think it's very important.

And if you're you're for you those of you who are listening and looking to get a therapist, don't assume that because a therapist rejects you or says no, they're not gonna take you or passes you on to someone else, that there's something wrong with you. 99% of the time is simply because they know that they're not the one for you. So just keep that in mind too. It doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you. Sometimes they just know, like, if somebody there's certain populations of people I don't deal with.

I do not counsel because I'm not equipped for that, and it's not my focus. And there's nothing wrong with, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. Some people also come in with like, a lot of teenagers come in with a diagnosis that they found on TikTok. I whatever. So they're like, oh, I have anxiety, and you have to be that person, that specialist.

But you're more than just that. They're I let you try to look at the whole person. Oh my god. Don't don't, don't. Please don't get stuck on a freaking title that someone else slapped on you.

They stamped you as X, Y, Z. So that's all you can ever be. That is 100% B. S. You can be more.

It might be true, but that's not all you are. Right. And also, like, CBT is a popular therapy, and I rely heavily on CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. It's a great kind of therapy, and it works really well. But I don't stop the therapy and announce, now we're doing CBT.

Like, I have enough experience, and your therapist should too, to just seamlessly move through different approaches. And I try to Understanding a concept and announcing it are two different things. Right. You're announcing the class, but That's right. And they sometimes they say, oh, well, why aren't we doing CBT?

And I'm like, well, actually we are doing CBT because I'm challenging your thought process. Yes. And and as you should. Absolutely should. I do that as coach as well.

It's one of the few things we got as one of the many things we have crossover on. That's right. Now let's let's talk since we're already talking about it, let's point out just a few pointers of how someone can tell that they have a bad therapist or at least a therapist that doesn't that's not a good match for them. Right. So, there should be some structure, like, you know, in the first few sessions, you know, you have some goals and you are making some progress towards those goals.

And we have some measurements for that, so it's not just like shooting in the dark. Mhmm. But you have to check-in with your internal space and ask yourself, do I feel better? And you're allowed to compare and contrast and try different approaches. And it may take some time.

Some people like to do therapy just like going to the gym for their whole lives. I do that just to check-in, but other people want it for a time limited, and that structure can be discussed. You can ask the therapist. Yeah. Do you think I'm making progress?

I don't feel like I'm making progress. What would you like to work on? What would you like to change? Open up that dialogue. So is a therapist who just says who just is a yes man and agrees with everything you say an excellent therapist?

No. Of course not. Because alright. Because also kids want feedback. They don't want Right.

They wanna relate to you want they want you to be relatable. So Exactly. If you get if you have a therapist that just agrees with everything you say and the therapist is going to ask you how you feel, how do you feel about such and such? That's a normal question. However, if that's all they do and they just agree with you, you are dealing with a robot.

Yeah. Exactly. And you wanna stay with the process. Like, I may have some ideas and agendas in my head, but I'm gonna go where you are. And that's what we're taught to do in school is meet the client where they are and then work with the other professionals in their lives, collaborate, find see if there's progress.

If there's no progress, I'm not gonna keep you. I'm going to say, you know what? You may be better served with x y z. And that's what a good therapist sounds like. Mhmm.

A bad one will just keep taking your money even though you're not progressing. Right. And, and that, that actually angers me because people think that there's something wrong with them because they're not growing when in fact they just have a therapist that's not interested in growth. That's a good point. That's a good point.

And and any kind of therapy and there's different kinds of therapy. So we're just talking about principles right now because the details are gonna vary, you know, depending on the type of therapist you are talking about. But I can't stand that. I I just can't stand that when people don't, aren't really looking at whether or not you're growing. And and also, Don, is that what are some of the good things that people can look for in a therapist?

Right. So some people just need a little extra time to grow up. I really believe that. Yeah. And they're not they don't have to have a diagnosis.

It's just a really hard transition growing up. I mean, let's face it. Then other people need more, like, in-depth, like, is it anxiety or depression or both? Or is it just loneliness? A lot of times, I find that boredom mimics depression.

So I ask them all the time about what are their hobbies? What are their interests? Can you take a risk? Can you try something new? You're not gonna change if you don't do anything.

If you don't do anything. As humans, we were designed to grow. We were designed for change. So when we go against that design, things are out of order, they're out of balance, and they don't work. Right.

Right. And we end up with issues. So now is therapy is therapy only for people that are retarded and crazy? Absolutely not. I mean, some kids say like, oh, I feel bad.

I don't have a big enough problem. It's okay. You know? You have a little anxiety. It's very workable.

Mhmm. You're not you're not dying, but that's okay. It's fine. It again, it's like sorta like going to the gym. You can just work through something small and specific or something big and, you know, God forbid traumatizing.

But anyone can can look into themselves without any shame or fear in theory. I I I said it that way, and some people find those words offensive, and I know that they are. However, they're the real words that some people use Mhmm. To describe themselves or others. I've heard it, So that's why I'm just being real with that.

Mhmm. Sometimes I think people don't recognize that it's actually healthier Mhmm. To talk to a therapist, even if you only talk to them once a month. Yeah. And, you know, I used to to bounce your brain.

Yeah. When I was doing in person, occasionally, like, one young client would see another leaving, which, of course, is not ideal. But they would be so happy because they would be like, oh, there's other kids like me that do I'm not the only one. Yeah. Yeah.

There has been a stigma, and I think it's still there. And I think we are in the process of getting out of that stigma. But, you know, for generations, it's been a stigma. Oh, if you see a therapist, it must be there must be something wrong with you. You must be crazy.

And that's not true. In fact, the craziest ones are the ones who don't go to see the therapist. Right. And so many of my young clients have gone on to lead beautiful, productive lives, and they keep in touch with me. And it's such a good feeling to know that you help them over that the biggest hurdle of maturation.

That doesn't mean that we pathologize everything about you. Yes. Let me ask you this, Donna, because it's something that I believe is too prevalent. But if I'm wrong, correct me. I think way too often people are diagnosed with depression because they have a depressive moment, which to me is not the same thing as being depressed.

Right. Is that just like stopping at a gas station doesn't make you a car. You might be driving your car. You stop there to get gas, but you're not living at the gas station. Yeah.

You're you're you're so right. And but when you're a teenager, everything's exaggerated. So you don't know. You don't you don't know what you don't know. And that's one of my favorite expressions.

You can't blame yourself for what you didn't know before you knew it. True. Very true. So, yes, the longer you live, the more perspective you have, and it's really hard for teenagers to have that perspective. Yep.

Unless they've been through a lot because there are and you know this too. There are some teenagers that have been through more than most of us adults. Right. And they have a level of experience and maturity that some 40 year olds don't have. Right.

I have seen that too. Yes, indeed. And that word resilience is really powerful in in my work because some people are just born with a little, you know, I like to focus on people's strengths and they have a, they have a bet they have better disposition to get through adversity. They may have been born that way, and some people just get knocked down by it. It's really interesting where they draw the resilience from in their lives.

Yes. And some of them are quite impressive. Uh-huh. Definitely. I'm always addressed by people who who still stand strong and do what they need to do regardless of all of the, you know, the the the bats that have been swinging at their head, so to speak.

You know? Right. Well, that happened to me personally. I mean, that's why I do this. I mean, I love working with kids because they're, like, alive and awake and they can make the changes quickly.

Yeah. That's true. But in my life, I went through so many different ups and downs and it just took forever to get to that place where I felt more myself and capable. For me, I had low self esteem all my life. Like, really Me too.

Yeah. Rejection issues, low self esteem Mhmm. Very, very bad on condemnation where nobody could beat me up more than I did. Same. And I was smiling and leading other people and and strong and all that, but they didn't know that.

ETERN internally, you know, I had all that going on. It took me a long time to get to the point of having confidence. I wouldn't have done this years ago. Me too. It took me it literally took me decades to feel a little bit empowered in my in myself again.

Something I've come to learn. Mhmm. I'm not as bad as I thought I was. Same. Same.

And there's many of you out there listening that need to learn that about yourself too. Yes. Sometimes you could look at your resume and I do and say, like, who did all that? Was that that wasn't me, was it? Sometimes I look back at things that I wrote and I'm like, I said that?

Oh, see. Right. Or people or clients will say to me, like, you said something so amazing and profound to me. It changed my life. I'm like, I did?

Yes. And as we grow, we we we learn more about ourselves. And when having a therapist to talk to can help you sort out those thoughts and come to that realization. Mhmm. So there doesn't have to be something wrong with you for you to go see the therapist.

Sometimes it just are just there to enhance you. Simply for some people, that's it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with you. Right. The therapist anyway, because they can help you balance out your thoughts.

If you keep all your thoughts in your head and they never come out, you never get a chance to sort them out. It's like puzzle pieces in a bag. We can't see the whole picture because they're in a bag. So sometimes we need to we need to get Also when you're tamping yourself down and people pleasing your whole life, you get more anxious because it's stuck in your body. And that was the other big breakthrough in the last thirty years is that trauma lives in the body.

It does. It really does. And that's the big takeaway from Bessel van der Kolk, who I admire very much. He wrote that book called The Body Keeps the Score, which was the top of the bestseller list during the pandemic for no apparent reason, because it's like this little esoteric book on childhood trauma. Mhmm.

But everyone felt traumatized, so they picked up the book. Yeah. Yeah. They did. And now we understand you gotta combine the mind body interventions and let the client decide what they need to do to get unstuck.

You don't it's not a top down thing. You have to buy into it. You can't be doing more work than the client. Yes. That is a % true.

We cannot and as a coach, I do this too. Mhmm. I I will lead you to the water, but you're gonna drink. Right. I am not doing it for you.

Right. You know, if you wanna run the race, I will encourage you on the side, and I'll be your coach. I am not running for you. Mhmm. I am not, you know, I'm not I'm not pulling you in a wagon either.

That doesn't help. That doesn't help. Even for example, I did this amazing thing. I was preparing for, a a meet a family meeting with one of my clients this morning, and I was making notes and everything else, and they didn't show up. I'm like, you know, that's not my fault.

No. You gotta show up. You gotta meet me halfway. You can't You can only grow if you want to, and and we can't make anybody grow, unfortunately. I know as a coach, if I, I decide whether or not I'm going to, you know, just like a therapist, whether or not I'm going to accept a client, And there's some people I I reject.

Mhmm. For that very reason, I can see that they're not ready to actually put the work in. Mhmm. They don't need to be perfect. I I'll meet people where they are.

I have no problem with that. What I need to see is a willingness to grow, a willingness to change so that you can grow, a willingness to be open to change. You know? And change isn't easy for everybody. I get that.

And you might have to go at your own pace, but that willingness is what I look for. And if I don't see it, we're done. Because I can't nobody can help you. Do with motivation. One of my clients, likes to, at the end of the session, wrap up with, like, a little phrase.

Like, what's my phrase for the week? And we come up with it together. Like, this week, I'm gonna let things roll off of me. Or this Oh, I like that. Week, I'm gonna wake up earlier.

Or this week, I'm gonna focus not focus on what everyone else thinks about me. You know? And then you pick up some it becomes more habitual if you put the focus there. Yep. Little focuses at a time is how we build anything.

Yeah. I I wanna go back to something you talked about a minute ago and just to clarify because I think it's important to clarify this point because too many people, think in extremities and don't realize they're making a mistake. There is a difference between can you explain the difference between a therapist, that challenges you versus the client who doesn't want to be challenged. So if that is the therapist is challenging you, does that automatically mean that they're just a mean jerk? Oh, gosh.

No. I mean, but it's it's a constant feedback loop. Right? You have to hear and then reflect. And, like, one patient actually told me, like, I I actually want you to challenge me more because I tend to be a little bit laid back.

So I said, okay. No problem. And I tried it a little bit with her and she responded much better. So everybody's different. Yes.

And also everybody's growth rate is different. So it might take me six days to do something, and that might take you six months. We are not the same and that's okay. Yeah. So please don't compare yourself to everybody else's growth scale.

You're not them. You are you. Uh-huh. And we understand that. And you're willing to work with that.

We understand that everybody works on the same timeline. So you need to understand that about yourself. I see people that get impatient with themselves because they feel like, well, I went to a therapist and there's just I I'm still messed up and it's been six months. Right. Right.

Exactly. I mean, in in body work, you will do, like, I'm looking I wrote down the word consolidation, like, in my yoga class. After you do a pose and hold a pose, you give it a minute for it to consolidate inside of you. And that's the same what I think of therapy. Like, it might feel like three steps forward, two steps back.

That's very common. Mhmm. And you're giving yourself a little time to consolidate what you've learned, but that's all. I completely agree. Now, Donna, tell us what else do you do?

Tell us about the project you have going on right now. Yeah. So I started a new project, which is sharing my thirty years of experience working with teens and and young adults in therapy, with a course that is on my website available, to purchase. It's donnacmoss.com forward slash course. And the course is called attunement and connection to teens and young adults in therapy, and it's for other therapists to learn how to better their work with teenagers from the point of view of a of a style and an a unique approach that I have to be more relatable with them.

Yes. So therapists listen up. Yeah. I think therapists listen up. You can yeah.

I mean, you can in other words, learn from an experienced professional, you know, something that you might not know starting out. Yes. I think it's important that we listen to different voices so that we be we can gain balanced thinking. Yeah. That's one thing I love that this podcast has done for me.

I've learned a lot. Yeah. Since I started just talking to different guests, I learned about things I didn't know and understand before. Mhmm. And I feel like that makes me a more balanced person.

Right. And it's so liberating at this stage of my life to say, you know what? I don't know. But I will ask and I will research and I will get back to you. And that, again, is a note some more balanced and mature thinking.

Yeah. The immature, the imbalance will go, I'm a make up something right now because I I need my ego to pretend like I know everything. That's it. Right. And you don't want a narcissistic therapist or an ego driven therapist.

Yes. Thank you for bringing that up. Yes. Oh my god. Because I How do we how can we tell?

How what did tell. Well, because okay. Because the person will basically talk about themselves the whole time, which is totally in the process. Biggest one. Yeah.

Yeah. And what I do is I do share a lot with my clients. I get to know them. We've it feels like almost like a friendship. Mhmm.

But I I will only share when I think it's prudent and appropriate. Like, oh my God, that happened to your dog. That happened to my dog too. My God. Right.

Relatable. Relatable. Again, like normalizing their experiences by saying other people have those experiences too, and so do I. I am not above you. You can trust me because I'm not trying to put myself above you and be a know it all.

But if you're just going on and on about your own problems for the whole time, that's not gonna be that's not productive. Get your own therapy. Alright. Well, Donna, how can I find you? What's tell them your website.

Again, donna c moss dot com or donna c moss dot com forward slash course. Buy the course and learn from from experience. Well, Donna, thank you so, so much for coming on. I really enjoyed this conversation and even more of the conversations we've had off air. Aw.

You too are good, Tema. You are so cool. And, also, I wanna add, I do like to use humor in in all my work. It's so powerful. It just is so powerful to just keep put people at ease.

It is. I use humor a lot. Mhmm. I mean, people here here I have a crazy personality anyway. I don't hide it, but but it it but it does help.

It puts people at ease. You're absolutely right. It does help. It's not always appropriate at all times. You know?

Again, you wanna be balanced there too. Right. But it it can help. It can help people feel even more relatable. And silences too.

Just you can let it be. You can let there be space for silence. And that's another big part of therapy. A lot of things happen in silence. Yes.

Indeed. Because we let it happen. We leave it be. Good and bad, but we're talking about the good right now. But you learn to coregulate with the therapist.

Okay. We're gonna take it down a notch, and that's fine. Let's just breathe and be positive. Good point. Good point.

Well, once again, Donna, thank you so, so much for coming on today. I'm so happy that we did this. And now for a mind shifting moment. Here's something I want you to think about. When it comes to therapy, today, we talked about what's a good therapist, what's a bad therapist.

But regardless of what kind of therapy you're talking about or who the therapist is, 50% of good therapy is you. Are you meeting the therapist? Are you being honest? Are you being real about what happened? They can't help you if you lie to them.

And the truth is that's an issue. And when you do have a good therapist and you feel like the therapy is working really well, the same thing applies. 50% of that is you. Thank you for listening to Mindshift Power Podcast. Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter.

If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit FatimaBay.com/podcast. Remember, there's power in shifting your thinking. Tune in for next week.