Therapists - Is Mine Any Good? : Ep #62

🎧 Breaking the Stigma: A Therapist's Guide to Finding Your Perfect Mental Health Match! Join 30-year psychotherapy veteran Donna Simas as she reveals what makes a great therapist and why mental wellness isn't just for those in crisis.

In this candid conversation about modern mental health, Donna shares powerful insights about therapy in the digital age and how to find the right support for your journey, whether you're dealing with everyday stress or deeper challenges.

This enlightening episode explores:

• Why the "therapist as robot" approach fails and how to spot authentic mental health professionals
• The critical differences between having a depressive moment versus clinical depression
• How social media and modern parenting created new challenges for teen mental health
• Why progress in therapy looks different for everyone - and that's perfectly okay
• The power of balancing professional expertise with genuine human connection
• What red flags signal it's time to find a new therapist
• Why seeking therapy is a sign of strength, not weakness

Perfect for: Teens considering therapy, parents wanting to understand modern mental health challenges, anyone seeking therapy but unsure where to start, mental health professionals looking to better connect with young clients, and anyone interested in breaking down mental health stigmas. Plus: Essential insights on finding the right therapeutic fit and building a foundation for lifelong mental wellness.

To learn more about Donna C. Moss, please click on the link below.

https://www.donnacmoss.com/

Transcript

00:01.25
fatimabey
And welcome everyone. Today we have with us Donna Simas. She is in Westchester County of New York. She is a trainer, speaker, and most importantly, psychotherapist specializing in teens and college students. You all know if you've been listening to me, I am constantly pushing therapy. Well, today we're gonna talk about how to tell if you have a good therapist. Cause we can say get a good therapist all day and night, but how do you know if you have one?

00:30.81
fatimabey
So, and I have the perfect person to talk about that with. How are you doing today, Dana?

00:34.94
donna c moss
Good, thank you Fatima, I'm so glad to be here.

00:38.01
fatimabey
I'm glad to have you. So, tell everyone how long have you been a psychotherapist?

00:45.04
donna c moss
About 30 years or more in the field, yes.

00:50.76
fatimabey
Wow, so that's a long time.

00:52.70
donna c moss
I guess so. yeah

00:55.14
fatimabey
um Honestly, that's one of the reasons why I have you on here is because you have a perspective. that the rest of us can't have. who've You've seen different generations and you understand this generation as well. And um so your perspective is to me very important because I can't have the perspective that you have. So in the 30 plus years that ah that you've been doing psychotherapy, what do you see are the biggest changes that you have seen in our youth?

01:25.10
donna c moss
Right, so that's a question that is is very popular now because of the teen mental health crisis that has been identified in our country from the time during COVID. So the good news is that there's much less stigma now and people have a better access to therapy and prevention services and i better diagnosis, better medications, all those things are good. But there's still barriers, as we know, because of the cost and other factors that therapists aren't paid enough, they don't have benefits a lot of times. So there's still a lot of people that struggle to find the right

02:11.49
donna c moss
therapist at the right time, which especially for young people, they don't ah can't always navigate it, especially if they want it to be confidential.

02:12.48
fatimabey
Hmm. Hmm.

02:22.67
donna c moss
So yeah, so

02:23.05
fatimabey
wouldn't what do you think What do you see as the different issues that save a teenager from 1994 to 2024?

02:34.86
donna c moss
Right, so we're lucky we have this guy, Jonathan Haidt. He wrote a book called The Anxious Generation which explains in depth the negative impact of social media combined with the uptick in sort of over-parenting or tiger moms or or ah fears of the outside world that

02:49.45
fatimabey
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

02:56.64
donna c moss
Um, made the parents more cautious, put the, and then the kids went underground. So they had all this, especially girls who spent twice as much time online than boys do. And the girls basically went down the rabbit hole and became more anxious and depressed because they spent more time in their room on their phone. And we could see how that was an sort of obvious change that happened. He says in 2011 was the biggest uptick.

03:26.71
donna c moss
in that cohort of the depression and anxiety combined with the fear in the world, that that group, and that's when they got the the iPhones.

03:37.54
donna c moss
That's when the iPhones became ubiquitous at the same time. So we know there's a strong correlation there.

03:41.88
fatimabey
yeah yeah good point So what I'm hearing, the average teenager was just born around then.

03:49.12
donna c moss
Yeah.

03:49.25
fatimabey
So that that means that the average teenager doesn't even know a time before all of this.

03:55.43
donna c moss
Right, correct.

03:55.59
fatimabey
They never lived it.

03:56.88
donna c moss
correct. And this has been brought up a lot. And, you know, we were sort of more like free range kids or whatever. But as my 23 year old daughter pointed out, she, she and her friends went to see the, um, the moon eclipse thing, the totality thing.

04:02.98
fatimabey
Mm hmm.

04:11.96
donna c moss
And she said it was, yeah, and they she said it was the first time that her generation came together for something positive because they were born into 9 11 and then there was COVID.

04:11.86
fatimabey
In April 24, yeah.

04:25.20
donna c moss
Um, and you know, and now there's even a million other things going on in the world that are really, really negative for them. So they had, they've had a rough generation and, um,

04:36.07
fatimabey
Good.

04:41.66
fatimabey
I, the reason I'm asking, um, talking to the audience now, the reason why I'm asking down to these questions, I'm constantly talking about how this generation is different than us. And as adults, we need to stop trying to compare ourselves to them because they're, we are not the same. We are growing up on different planet. They're growing up on a different planet.

04:59.17
fatimabey
And Donna, as a psychotherapist, can point out the specific details to that as a professional. And you can hear some of those things. And if you're a teenager listening, I want you to know that there are some adults here who we do actually understand. We get it. And um and I just think it's important to to note that. Now, when it comes to um

05:22.37
fatimabey
All of that is very relevant to the rest of this conversation. So when it comes to therapists, all therapists are the same, right? And every therapist is for everyone, right?

05:31.40
donna c moss
Right, you could even do it with a robot or AI. No, just kidding. No, I mean, of course we all know that the fit is paramount, not who has the most letters after the name, all of those things we know.

05:41.16
fatimabey
Yeah. Right.

05:45.88
donna c moss
and yeah You know, that's why I always say at the end of a first session, do you feel comfortable with me? Me personally, it's a personal trusting relationship. If you don't feel comfortable, there's no space to do this.

06:02.92
fatimabey
There really isn't. I don't want to add because it irritates the crap out of me. You hear me saying it all the time and it's on my website. I can't stand talking to a clinically trained robot.

06:13.73
donna c moss
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

06:15.11
fatimabey
And some people are nothing more than that with a title and. I would say, and you can correct me if I'm wrong or reword it if you want, Donna. i'm I would say to youth listening and you are willing to seek out therapy and you want to find a good therapist.

06:31.23
fatimabey
You're not sure what to you know what to look for in this episode for you. If you find that the person you're talking to feels more like a robot than a human, might be time to say, peace out.

06:39.13
donna c moss
Right.

06:41.09
fatimabey
I want to look for someone else.

06:42.92
donna c moss
And just like anything else, I I've heard for years, people who spend more time comparing car brands than therapists like

06:50.25
fatimabey
Oh, good point.

06:51.40
donna c moss
You're entitled to do some research to see where you feel comfortable and then land in that place. um that's That's your prerogative and and you absolutely should be encouraged to do that.

07:07.55
donna c moss
And also I use the process as my guide, like I'm listening e and of course the the Zoom and the phone creates certain barrier to let's say intimate,

07:07.67
fatimabey
and

07:20.26
donna c moss
intimate conversations but not after a while you get to know the person it's it's totally fine. So the therapist should not be robotic and should not be have a script and should not just do workbook sheets. They should get to know you.

07:37.33
fatimabey
Yes, because it's it's all about your humanity, not just about a list of things you're supposed to know and concepts you understand.

07:44.88
donna c moss
Right and empathy and then also the therapist might not take you and that's okay too. Like if someone comes to me and says, I have a six year old boy with ADHD and he's bouncing off the walls.

07:50.67
fatimabey
Yes.

07:55.04
donna c moss
Is that for me? No, I do young girls, you know, young adult girls, teenagers, 30 something women.

07:57.11
fatimabey
Right.

08:03.95
donna c moss
That's, you know, I'm not going to be starting to work with, you know, other

08:11.41
fatimabey
groups of people.

08:12.22
donna c moss
groups of people that I don't know that well. And it's such a relief as an older therapist now to be able to say, you know what, that's not my thing.

08:21.63
fatimabey
And you know what, that is good. A really good therapist does have a special specialty, I would say or a niche.

08:29.60
donna c moss
Yes.

08:29.92
fatimabey
um I think it's very important and if you're youre for you those of you who are listening and looking to get a therapist, don't assume that because a therapist rejects you or says, no, they're not going to take you or passes you on to someone else, that there's something wrong with you. 99% of the time is simply because they know that they're not the one for you.

08:51.54
fatimabey
So just keep that in mind too. It doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you. Sometimes they just know, like if somebody, there's certain populations of people I don't deal with, I do not counsel because it I'm not equipped for that and it's not my focus and there's nothing wrong with, you know, there's nothing wrong with that.

09:02.54
donna c moss
Yeah.

09:07.63
donna c moss
Right. And some people also come in with like a lot of teenagers come in with a diagnosis that they found on TikTok. I, whatever.

09:15.10
fatimabey
Oh, wow.

09:15.56
donna c moss
So they're like, Oh, I have anxiety and you have to be that person, that specialist, but you're more than just that there. I like try to look at the whole person.

09:24.01
fatimabey
Thank you. Oh my God. Don't, don't, don't, please don't get stuck on a freaking title that someone else slapped on you.

09:35.44
fatimabey
They stamped you as XYZ, so that's all you can ever be. That is 100% BS. You can be more. It might be true, but that's not all you are.

09:45.13
donna c moss
Right and also like CBT is a popular therapy and I rely heavily on CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy.

09:45.35
fatimabey
It's just like...

09:49.39
fatimabey
Mm-hmm.

09:52.99
donna c moss
It's a great kind of therapy and it works really well. But I don't stop the therapy and announce now we're doing CBT. Like I have enough experience and your therapist should too, to just seamlessly move through different approaches.

10:10.11
donna c moss
And I try to, right.

10:10.33
fatimabey
Yep, understanding a concept and announcing it are two different things. but You announce it in a class, but not in class.

10:13.75
donna c moss
And then that's right. And then sometimes they say, oh, well, why aren't we doing CBT? And I'm like, well, actually we are doing CBT. Cause I'm challenging your thought process.

10:22.06
fatimabey
Yeah. Yes, and and as you should, absolutely absolutely should.

10:25.89
donna c moss
Uh-huh.

10:26.84
fatimabey
I do that as a coach as well. It's one of the few things we got. That's one of the many things we have a crossover on.

10:31.91
donna c moss
That's right.

10:32.24
fatimabey
ah Now, let's let's talk, since we're already talking about it, let's point out just a few pointers of how someone can tell that they have a bad therapist or at least a therapist that doesn't, that's not a good match for them.

10:47.12
donna c moss
Right. So um there should be some structure like, you know, in the first few sessions, you know, you have some goals and you are making some progress towards those goals and we have

10:56.19
fatimabey
Yeah.

10:59.60
donna c moss
Some measurements for that so it's not just like shooting in the dark. um But you have to check in with your internal space and ask yourself, do I feel better?

11:11.93
donna c moss
And you're allowed to compare and contrast and try different approaches. um And it may take some time.

11:17.45
fatimabey
Yeah.

11:20.42
donna c moss
Some people like to do therapy just like going to the gym for their whole lives. I do that just to check in. um but other people want it for a time limited and that structure can be discussed.

11:33.54
donna c moss
You can ask the therapist, do you think I'm making progress?

11:35.44
fatimabey
Yeah.

11:38.04
donna c moss
I don't feel like I'm making progress. What would you like to work on? What would you like to change? Open up that dialogue.

11:45.95
fatimabey
So is a therapist who just says, who just is a yes man and agrees with everything you say, an excellent therapist.

11:53.44
donna c moss
No, of course not because all right, because also kids want feedback. They don't want they want to relate to you want they want you to be relatable.

11:58.72
fatimabey
Right.

12:02.37
donna c moss
So.

12:03.34
fatimabey
Exactly.

12:04.46
donna c moss
ah

12:04.52
fatimabey
if you get If you have a therapist that just agrees with everything you say, and the therapist's going to ask you, how you feel how do you feel about such and such? That's a normal question. However, if that's all they do and they just agree with you, you are dealing with a robot.

12:19.73
donna c moss
Yeah, exactly. And you want to stay with the process. Like I may have some ideas and agendas in my head, but I'm going to go where you are. And that's what we're taught to do in school is meet the client where they are and then work with the other professionals in their lives, collaborate, find, see if there's progress.

12:29.15
fatimabey
Mm-hmm.

12:39.63
donna c moss
If there's no progress, I'm not going to keep you. I'm going to say, you know what, you may be better served with XYZ.

12:47.04
fatimabey
And that's what a good therapist sounds like.

12:50.04
donna c moss
Mm-hmm.

12:50.87
fatimabey
A bad one will just keep taking your money even though you're not progressing.

12:53.15
donna c moss
I know, right.

12:55.21
fatimabey
And and that that actually angers me because people think that there's something wrong with them because they're not growing when in fact they just have a therapist that's not interested in growth.

12:58.06
donna c moss
Mm-hmm.

13:04.56
donna c moss
Mm, that's a good point. That's a good point.

13:08.25
fatimabey
And and any kind of therapy and there's different kinds of therapy.

13:12.10
donna c moss
Mm-hmm.

13:11.99
fatimabey
So we're just talking about principles right now because the details are going to vary, you know, that depending on the type of therapist you are talking about. i'm But I can't stand that.

13:26.09
fatimabey
I just can't stand that when people don't. ah aren't really looking at whether or not you're growing. i'm and And also, Don, is that what are some of the good things that people can look for in a therapist?

13:36.75
donna c moss
right Right, so some people just need a little extra time to grow up I really believe that and they're not they don't have to have a diagnosis It's just a really hard transition growing up.

13:42.97
fatimabey
Yeah.

13:49.12
donna c moss
I mean, let's face it Then other people need more like in depth, like is it anxiety or depression or both, or is it just loneliness? A lot of times I find that boredom mimics depression.

14:03.68
donna c moss
So I ask them all the time about what are their hobbies?

14:04.63
fatimabey
um Good point.

14:07.49
donna c moss
What are their interests? Can you take a risk? Can you try something new? You're not going to change if you don't do anything. If you don't do anything.

14:15.39
fatimabey
Yeah, good point. As humans, we were designed to grow.

14:20.71
donna c moss
ah

14:21.38
fatimabey
We were designed for change. So when we go against that design, things are out of order, they're out of balance, and they don't work.

14:30.20
donna c moss
Right, right.

14:31.14
fatimabey
And then we ended with issues. So now is therapy, is therapy only for people that are retarded and crazy?

14:33.48
donna c moss
Right.

14:38.67
fatimabey
but smith

14:38.95
donna c moss
Absolutely not. I mean, some kids say like, oh, I feel bad. I don't have a big enough problem. It's okay. You know, you have a little anxiety. It's very workable.

14:50.19
donna c moss
you You're not dying, but that's okay. It's fine. and Again, it's like sort of like going to the gym. You can just work through something small and specific or something big and you know God forbid traumatizing. But anyone can ken look into themselves without any shame or fear in theory.

15:14.35
fatimabey
I, I said it that way. Um, and some people will find those words offensive and I know that they are, however, they're the real words that some people use to describe themselves or others. I've heard it.

15:24.97
fatimabey
So that's why I'm just being real with that. Sometimes I think people don't recognize that it's actually healthier to talk to a therapist, even if you only talk to them once a month, just to balance your brain.

15:36.72
donna c moss
Yeah, and you know, I used to when I yeah, when I was doing in person, occasionally, like one young client would see another leaving, which of course is not ideal, but they would be so happy.

15:50.10
donna c moss
Because they would be like, oh, there's other kids like me that do this.

15:53.28
fatimabey
I'm not the only one.

15:54.31
donna c moss
Yeah.

15:54.53
fatimabey
Yeah. There has been a stigma and I think it's still there. And I think we are in the process of getting out of that stigma.

16:01.52
donna c moss
hu

16:01.38
fatimabey
But, you know, for generations, it's been a stigma. Oh, if you see a therapist, it must be there must be something wrong with you. You must be crazy. And that's not true. In fact, the craziest ones are the ones who don't go to see the therapist because they haven't worked out their issues.

16:12.83
donna c moss
Right. Right. And so many of my young clients have gone on to lead Beautiful productive lives and they keep in touch with me and it's such a good feeling to know that you help them over that the biggest hurdle of maturation that doesn't mean that we pathologize everything about you

16:32.46
fatimabey
Yes. Let me ask you this, Donna, because it's something that i I believe is too prevalent. But if I'm wrong, correct me. I think way too often people are diagnosed with depression because they have a depressive moment.

16:49.50
donna c moss
Huh, yes.

16:49.78
fatimabey
which to me is not the same thing as being depressed.

16:53.28
donna c moss
Right.

16:53.27
fatimabey
Because that this just like stopping at a gas station doesn't make you a car, you might be driving your car. You stop there to get gas, but you're not living at the gas station.

17:04.07
donna c moss
Yeah, you your ah you're so right. and But when you're a teenager, everything's exaggerated. So you don't know youda you don't know what you don't know.

17:10.32
fatimabey
True, true.

17:13.92
donna c moss
And that's one of my favorite expressions. You can't blame yourself for what you didn't know before you knew it.

17:19.84
fatimabey
True. Very true.

17:21.81
donna c moss
So yes, the longer you live, the more perspective you have.

17:22.06
fatimabey
Very, very true.

17:25.25
donna c moss
And it's really hard for teenagers to have that perspective.

17:29.16
fatimabey
Yep. Unless they've been through a lot because there are, and you know this too, there are some teenagers that have been through more than most of us adults and they have a level of experience and maturity that some 40 year olds don't have.

17:30.91
donna c moss
Mm-hmm.

17:36.33
donna c moss
right right and yes indeed and that word resilience is really powerful in in my work because some people are just born with a little you know i like to focus on people's strengths and they have a they have a bet they have better disposition to get through adversity they may have been born that way and some people just get knocked down by it

17:41.30
fatimabey
I have seen that too.

17:46.82
fatimabey
Yeah.

18:06.02
donna c moss
It's really interesting where they draw the resilience from in their lives.

18:11.69
fatimabey
Yes. And some of them are quite impressive.

18:14.39
donna c moss
Ah, definitely.

18:15.08
fatimabey
I, I'm always impressed by people who, who still stand strong and do what they need to do, regardless of all of the, you know, the, the, the bats that have been swung with their head, so to speak, you know, the, the boulders that life and serve them.

18:15.72
donna c moss
Well.

18:26.95
donna c moss
Right. Well, that happened to me personally. I mean, that's why I do this. I mean, I love working with kids because they're like alive and awake and they can make the changes quickly.

18:37.64
fatimabey
Yeah, that's true.

18:38.60
donna c moss
But in my life, I went through so many different ups and downs and it just took forever to get to that place where I felt more myself and capable.

18:49.26
fatimabey
Hmm For me I had low self-esteem all my life like really rejection issues low self-esteem very very bad on condemnation where nobody could beat me up more than I did and I was smiling and leading other people and and strong and all that but they didn't know that you turn internally, you know, I had all that going on it took me a long time and

18:55.85
donna c moss
Me too. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

19:03.42
donna c moss
Yeah. Same.

19:18.35
fatimabey
to get to the point of having confidence. I wouldn't have done this years ago.

19:22.26
donna c moss
Me too. It literally took me decades to feel a little bit empowered in my and myself again.

19:23.57
fatimabey
but

19:30.83
fatimabey
Something I've come to learn, I'm not as bad as I thought I was.

19:34.17
donna c moss
Same, same.

19:35.06
fatimabey
And there's many of you out there listening that need to learn that about yourself too.

19:38.85
donna c moss
Yeah, sometimes you could look at your resume and I do and say like, who did all that? Was that, that wasn't me, was it?

19:45.49
fatimabey
Me too.

19:48.58
fatimabey
Sometimes I look back at things that I wrote and I'm like, I said that.

19:53.09
donna c moss
Same, right? Or people or clients will say to me like, you said something so amazing and profound to me, it changed my life. I'm like, I did?

20:02.58
fatimabey
Yes. And as we grow, we, we, we learn more about ourselves and when having a therapist to talk to can help you sort out those thoughts and come to that realization.

20:11.06
donna c moss
ah son

20:14.80
fatimabey
So there doesn't have to be something wrong with you.

20:17.76
donna c moss
Right.

20:17.63
fatimabey
for you to go see the therapist.

20:18.82
donna c moss
Exactly.

20:19.17
fatimabey
Sometimes they're just there to enhance you. Simply, for some people that's it.

20:24.45
donna c moss
Yeah.

20:24.45
fatimabey
There's absolutely nothing wrong with you.

20:26.11
donna c moss
Right.

20:26.44
fatimabey
See the therapist anyway, cause they can help you balance out your thoughts. If you keep all your thoughts in your head and they never come out, you never get a chance to sort them out. It's like puzzle pieces in a bag. We can't see the whole picture cause they're in a bag.

20:38.60
donna c moss
a Exactly.

20:40.43
fatimabey
So sometimes we need to, we need to get them out there.

20:41.69
donna c moss
Also, when you're tamping yourself down and people pleasing your whole life, you get more anxious because it's stuck in your body.

20:47.41
fatimabey
Hmm.

20:51.42
donna c moss
And now it's the other big breakthrough in the last 30 years is that trauma lives in the body.

20:51.81
fatimabey
Yeah.

20:57.43
fatimabey
It does. It really does.

20:59.06
donna c moss
And that's the big takeaway from Bessel van der Kolk, who I admire very much.

20:59.54
fatimabey
It really, really does.

21:03.18
donna c moss
He wrote that book called The Body Keeps the Score, which was the top of the bestseller list during the pandemic for no apparent reason, because it's like this little esoteric book on childhood trauma.

21:15.19
fatimabey
Hmm.

21:17.00
donna c moss
But everyone felt traumatized, so they picked up the book.

21:19.46
fatimabey
Yeah, yeah, now they did.

21:21.49
donna c moss
And and now we understand you've got to combine the mind-body interventions and let the client to decide what they need to do to get unstuck. It's not a top-down thing. You have to buy into it. You can't be doing more work than the client.

21:43.25
fatimabey
Yes, that is 1000% true. We cannot, yeah as a coach, I do this too.

21:49.18
donna c moss
her

21:50.30
fatimabey
I will lead you to the water, but you're going to drink.

21:53.95
donna c moss
Right.

21:54.29
fatimabey
I am not doing it for you.

21:55.99
donna c moss
Right.

21:56.69
fatimabey
You know, if you want to run the race, I will encourage you on the side and I'll be your coach. I am not running for you. I am not, you know, I'm not, I'm not pulling you in a wagon either. That doesn't help.

22:08.23
donna c moss
Right, like even for example, I did this amazing thing.

22:08.48
fatimabey
That doesn't help them at all.

22:11.65
donna c moss
I was preparing for ah um a meet a family meeting with one of my clients this morning and I was making notes and everything else and they didn't show up. I'm like, you know, that's not my fault.

22:27.04
donna c moss
ah

22:27.93
fatimabey
No, it you got to show up.

22:28.49
donna c moss
You got to show up. You got to meet me halfway. You can't.

22:32.37
fatimabey
You can only grow if you want to. and And we can't make anybody grow, unfortunately. I know as a coach, if i um I decide whether or not I'm going to, you know, just like a therapist, whether or not I'm going to accept a client.

22:44.61
fatimabey
And there's some people I reject for that very reason. I can see that they're not ready to actually put the work in. um They don't need to be perfect. i I'll meet people where they are.

22:56.19
fatimabey
I have no problem with that. What I need to see is a willingness to grow, a willingness to change so that you can grow, a willingness to be open to change.

23:01.20
donna c moss
Right, right.

23:05.27
fatimabey
You know, and change isn't easy for everybody. I get that. And you might have to go at your own pace, but that willingness is what I look for. And if I don't see it, we're done because I can't, nobody can help you.

23:12.61
donna c moss
Right, it's it has to do with motivation. One of my clients likes to, um at the end of the session, wrap up with like a little phrase like, what's my phrase for the week and we come up with it together like, this week I'm going to let things roll off for me or this

23:30.86
fatimabey
Oh, I like that.

23:31.56
donna c moss
week I'm gonna wake up earlier or this week I'm gonna focus not focus on what everyone else thinks about me you know and then you pick up some it becomes more habitual if you put the focus there yeah

23:48.10
fatimabey
Yep, little focuses at a time is how we build anything. i yeah I want to go back to something you talked about a minute ago and just to clarify because I think it's important to clarify this point because too many people uh, think in extremities and don't realize they're making a mistake.

24:07.82
fatimabey
There is a difference between, can you explain the difference between a the therapist, uh, that challenges you versus the client who doesn't want to be challenged.

24:18.87
donna c moss
Mm hmm.

24:26.71
fatimabey
So if a therapist is challenging you, does that automatically mean that they're just a mean jerk?

24:27.09
donna c moss
Yes, I mean. Oh, gosh, no, I mean, but it's it's a constant feedback loop, right? You have to hear and then reflect and like one patient actually told me like I I actually want you to challenge me more because I tend to be a little bit laid back.

24:51.51
donna c moss
um So I said, okay, no problem. And I tried it a little bit with her and she responded much better. So everybody's different.

25:00.69
fatimabey
Yes. And also everybody's growth rate is different.

25:05.07
donna c moss
<unk>

25:05.36
fatimabey
So it might take me six days to do something that might take you six months. We are not the same and that's okay.

25:12.59
donna c moss
Yeah, yeah.

25:13.01
fatimabey
So please don't compare yourself to everybody else's growth scale.

25:18.37
donna c moss
Exactly.

25:18.41
fatimabey
You are not them. You are you. And we understand that and we're willing to work with that.

25:22.48
donna c moss
Right.

25:24.44
fatimabey
We understand that everybody works on the same timeline. So you need to understand that about yourself. I see people that get impatient with themselves because they feel like, well, I went to a therapist and there's just, I'm still messed up and it's been six months.

25:37.88
donna c moss
Right, right, exactly. I mean, in in body work, you will do like, I'm looking, i wrote down the word consolidation like in my yoga class after you do a pose and hold a pose you give it a minute for it to consolidate inside of you and that's the same what I think of therapy like it might feel like three steps forward two steps back that's very common and you're giving yourself a little time to consolidate what you've learned but that's all

26:12.50
fatimabey
I completely agree. Now, Donna, tell us what else do you do? Tell us about the project you have going on right now.

26:19.60
donna c moss
Yeah, so I started a new project which is sharing my 30 years of experience working with teens and and young adults in therapy um with a course that is on my website available ah to purchase. It's donacimas.com forward slash course. And the course is called Attunement and Connection to Teens and Young Adults in Therapy. And it's for other therapists to learn how to better their work with teenagers from the point of view of a of a style and a unique approach that I have to be more relatable with them.

26:59.24
fatimabey
Yes, so therapists, listen up.

27:01.88
donna c moss
Yeah, therapists listen up.

27:02.15
fatimabey
I think this is great.

27:04.09
donna c moss
You can, yeah, I mean, you can, in other words, learn from an experienced professional, you know, something that you might not know starting out.

27:14.56
fatimabey
Yes, I think it's important that we listen to different voices so that we we can gain balanced thinking.

27:21.45
donna c moss
Yeah.

27:21.79
fatimabey
and That's one thing I love that this podcast has done for me. I've learned a lot um since I started just talking to different guests.

27:25.50
donna c moss
Yeah.

27:28.34
fatimabey
I learned about things I didn't know and understand before.

27:30.58
donna c moss
the Right.

27:31.29
fatimabey
um And I feel like that makes me a more balanced person.

27:34.53
donna c moss
And it's so liberating at this stage of my life to say, you know what, I don't know, but I will ask and I will research and I will get back to you.

27:42.89
fatimabey
And that again is and some more balanced and mature thinking.

27:46.67
donna c moss
Yeah.

27:47.05
fatimabey
and ah yeah The immature, the imbalance would go, um I'm gonna make up some right now, cause I need my ego to pretend like I know everything.

27:52.33
donna c moss
Yeah. That's it. Right. And you don't want a narcissistic therapist or an ego-driven therapist.

27:58.94
fatimabey
Oh yes, thank you for bringing that up.

28:00.32
donna c moss
Yes.

28:00.38
fatimabey
Oh my God.

28:01.68
donna c moss
Because I've done, you can tell.

28:01.90
fatimabey
ah how do we How can we tell? How what are how can we tell?

28:05.02
donna c moss
Well, because, okay, because the person will basically talk about themselves the whole time, which is totally inappropriate.

28:10.16
fatimabey
o That's probably the biggest one, yeah.

28:12.23
donna c moss
Yeah. And what I do is I do share a lot with my clients. I get to know them. We've, it feels like almost like a friendship. But I I will only share when I think it's prudent and Appropriate like oh my god that happened to your dog that happened to my dog too my god Again like normalizing their experiences by saying other people have those experiences too and so do I I am not above you You can trust me because I'm not trying to put myself above you

28:36.50
fatimabey
Right. Relatable. Relatable. That's important.

28:45.71
fatimabey
Yes. Yeah.

28:52.80
donna c moss
and be a know-it-all. But if you're just going on and on about your own problems for the whole time, that's not going to be that's not productive. Get your own therapy.

29:05.84
fatimabey
All right, well, Donna, oh oh how can they find you? which you Tell them your website.

29:09.86
donna c moss
Again, donacemos.com or donacemos.com forward slash course. Buy the course and learn from from experience.

29:20.58
fatimabey
Well, Donna, thank you so, so much for coming on. I really enjoyed this conversation and even more of the conversations we've had over here.

29:27.69
donna c moss
Oh, you too Fatima, you are so cool. And also I want to add, I do like to use humor in in all my work. It's so powerful.

29:36.68
fatimabey
Hmm It is I use humor and that I mean people here here I have a crazy personality anyway, I don't hide it but But it it it but it does help it puts people at ease.

29:37.35
donna c moss
It just is so powerful to just keep put people at ease.

29:45.23
donna c moss
a

29:52.85
fatimabey
You're absolutely right. It does help It's not always appropriate at all times, you know, again, you want to be balanced there too, but it can help it can help people feel even more relatable and

29:58.89
donna c moss
right yes and silences too just long you can let it be you can let there be space for silence and that's another big part of therapy yes indeed yeah yeah

30:12.70
fatimabey
A lot of things happen in silence because we let it happen. We leave it be. Good and bad, but we're talking about the good right now.

30:20.85
donna c moss
But you learn to co-regulate with the therapist. Okay, we're going to take it down a notch and that's fine. Let's just breathe and be present.

30:28.70
fatimabey
Yeah, good point. Good point. Well, once again, Donna, thank you so, so much for coming on today.

30:33.27
donna c moss
You're welcome. Thank you. I'm so happy that we did this.