Generational Gap - Where Everyone's Right and Everyone's Wrong: Episode #70

🎧 Three Generations Speak: A Raw Conversation About How Technology, Trauma, and Social Change Shape Different Generational Experiences! Join three women ages 23, 50, and 62 as they explore how their drastically different upbringings influence their perspectives on everything from dating to politics.

Generations at a Glance:

• Generation Alpha: Born 2013–present 11 and younger
• Generation Z: Born 1997–2012, currently ages 12–27
• Millennials: Born 1981–1996, currently ages 28–43
• Generation X: Born 1965–1980, currently ages 44–59
• Baby Boomers: Born 1946–1964, currently ages 60–78

Through candid dialogue across generational lines, this episode reveals how digital connection, social movements, and cultural shifts create both divides and opportunities for understanding between age groups.

This illuminating episode explores:

• Why Gen Z sees tragedy as "normal" while older generations remember periods of peace
• How digital connection creates both isolation and unprecedented unity
• The dramatic shift in how different generations approach dating and relationships
• Why political engagement means something different to each age group
• The importance of listening across generational divides
• How social media shapes modern community building
• Building bridges between digitally native and analog childhoods

Perfect for: Anyone seeking to understand different generational perspectives, parents and teens working to bridge communication gaps, educators teaching across age groups, and those interested in how technology shapes generational experiences. Plus: Essential insights about fostering meaningful dialogue between age groups while maintaining respect for different lived experiences.

Transcript

00:06.15
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
and Welcome everyone today. We have with us Donna CMOS. She has been here before um but here talking What was that All right, I'll start again I'm not looking at you right now. I'm looking at the interview sheet

00:27.84
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And welcome, everyone. We have today with us Donna C. Moss. You've heard her before. She's here in a different capacity today. And we also have Ariel Moss, her daughter. So we're talking about different generational ah topics. So Ariel is 23. I am 50. And Donna is 62.

00:49.66
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
All three of us are from in the Northeast of of the United States and all three of us are from three different generations. So I'm gonna do something a little different today. I'm gonna break down what the generation and what the generations are called and their age ranges because people are always confused about this. So I'm just gonna clarify it from the beginning.

01:12.87
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So the baby boomers were born between 1946 and 64. They are 60 to 78 right now. So that would be Donna. Generation X was born between 1965 and 1980. They are forty four between 44 and 59 right now. That's Generation X. That's me. ah Millennials were born between 1981 and 1996. They are currently 28 to 43 years old. By the way, this recording is November of 2024, so if you listen to this later, those ages will change. ah Gen Z, Generation Z, were born between 1997 and 2012, currently between the ages of 12 and 27, which is all the teenagers and young adults. And Generation Alpha, those are the babies right now. They are 11 years and younger. They're born between 2013 and now.

02:05.62
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So now that we have ah broken that down, Donna, why don't you tell me what you said to me that prompted this conversation here for this episode?

02:17.62
donna c moss
If I remember correctly, I think I was telling you that Ariel told me that for the first time, her generation came together for something happy and momentous was the fully ah solar eclipse that happened earlier this year. She told me it was the first time that they came together for something positive in in her life. And she was born into 911. And she just finished college through COVID. And a lot of problems in between. So it was it was nice for me to hear that there was some thing that they all came together for.

02:56.03
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So Ariel, can you explain that a little bit in your own words, what you had what you were talking about?

03:03.02
Ariel
Yeah, like my mom said, I was born right into 9-11. So I think my specifically my year and my generation was kind of used to having tragedy happen, unfortunately. And I think we're known for being pretty resilient. And so I think with resilience, it means that there was at some point hardship. And so this eclipse,

03:30.34
Ariel
um just kind of felt like one thing that we were all a part of that had no, you know, good or bad to it. And it was just kind of like a community experience. And, you know, everyone was really excited about it. And it was just kind of the first time that many people felt like they were coming together about something that wasn't like so horrible.

03:52.58
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I think that that's a very fascinating point, Ariel. Most of the generations, ah my generation and your mom's generation, just anybody older, we don't think about the fact that this is all you know. Tragedy for your generation is the norm and it is all you know. For us,

04:12.47
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
It came about later in life, and so we have a different perspective. And I think it's important. I also want to mention um you heard the age difference between ah Ariel and her mother. Her mother, Donna, had Ariel at 40. So she there's a bigger age gap. Most people around Ariel's age, their parents are about my age, around 50.

04:34.39
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So, well, roughly. So when I talk about the differences between ah generations, I think it's important to to note that most of the people Ariel's age, their parents, the people talking to them about whatever are my age. And then their grandparents are more more likely anyway, um Donna's age. So go back to what you were saying.

04:59.80
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I think it's important that for all of us to really understand that that is not a minor detail. The fact that you grew up just thinking of tragedy as normal. um am Am I saying that correctly?

05:16.91
Ariel
Yeah, I think so.

05:18.57
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So I think that that makes a difference. ah Don't you, Donna? if if I'm asking Donna because Donna's also a therapist, so she gets into people's heads a lot. Very psychological. So it's a very um apt it's a very appropriate question for her. um Growing up in a way where tragedy is normal, does that affect your brain?

05:41.53
donna c moss
Well, first of all, every generation's gonna say that they had their own trauma, right? I mean, the fact that we're I'm a boomer means that I was born out of World War II.

05:46.43
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Mm-hmm.

05:54.92
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Mm hmm.

05:56.01
donna c moss
So yeah each I would argue each generation has their challenges and that's okay, but as Ariel said, we need to try to do a better job of communicating where we're coming from.

06:07.62
donna c moss
then

06:08.78
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yeah, I agree. And my generation, you know, I grew up in the eighties. So anybody my age remembers Breakfast Club. um My favorite movie was I'm going to get you sucka. And, uh, uh, what was the Eddie Murphy movie coming to America? Like, I remember all that stuff. You know, for I was a teenager, and a kid during some of that stuff. So for my generation, we didn't have wars. Like.

06:36.42
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
You did right, John. You had. Well, no, that's not true. We did have. ah You had Vietnam.

06:41.06
donna c moss
Vietnam.

06:42.97
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
We had Afghanistan.

06:43.97
donna c moss
Yeah, yeah.

06:46.46
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And what was it? Ninety two. ah Forgive me if I'm recalling that.

06:50.71
donna c moss
Yeah, yeah, about that, yeah.

06:52.75
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
i I think I'm naming the war. No, I'm sorry.

06:56.21
donna c moss
Oh.

06:55.71
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
It was Iraq, not Afghanistan. um It was Iraq. But ah do you remember any aerial as your age? Do you think of war as something that has happened in your lifetime?

07:10.52
Ariel
Most of my life, I would say no. i More recently, it's changed a bit. But I think growing up, I remember feeling like you know we would learn about it in school. And it sounded so big. And like it was the biggest thing going on in those times. And I think that's partly the way we learn about it, partly because there was more known about what was going on. And I always remember feeling like I I wouldn't even know if there was a war going on because nobody talks about it.

07:44.78
Ariel
um

07:44.55
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Here's why I find that, I'm sorry, go ahead.

07:47.48
Ariel
note that that

07:50.03
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
um Here's why I find that response interesting. There has been quite a few wars, big ones in your lifetime, but the fact that they're they're not seen as i a major part of life, um I think that is it something different for your generation, because I don't think it's just you. um I think for the younger generations, it's not seen that way. Let's talk about one of the reasons why I think that's true.

08:14.53
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Technology. Technology is always going to increase. It's always going to be different for generation generation generation to generation. That's always going to be true. However, technology for my generation didn't really, it wasn't like you know social media, your phones, being digitally attached to everything. That wasn't a major part of our lives growing up. we My generation, we were in our 20s before that really hit the fans. um you know Around the time of the iPhone is what most experts say is when the digital era really began to take a hold of our culture. So for you,

08:59.23
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
How do you view digital stuff, like everything technology-wise? Ariel, I'm sorry.

09:07.01
Ariel
Um, you know, I think there's good and bad. I think growing up, there were times that if I didn't have my phone, maybe, you know, middle school drama wouldn't have been so bad.

09:19.87
Ariel
And there was definitely a lot of hiding behind screens.

09:20.14
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Hmm, true.

09:25.71
Ariel
Um, as I got older, I think I, I started to appreciate it a bit more in the, in the way of like,

09:31.38
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Okay.

09:34.43
Ariel
you know, you can connect with people. I don't live near most of my childhood friends anymore. And so it's, you know, there's a connecting aspect to it as we know. Um, and then I think a big thing with that was during COVID, the way people responded to having technology. And I always said that I kind of appreciated it because it would give me some, like,

10:00.97
Ariel
kind of inspiration. I would scroll for a little while and see someone cooking something or see someone making you know arts and crafts or whatever it was. And I felt like that kind of just was inspired.

10:12.36
Ariel
like not It would give me something to do. It would kind of get me motivated, which isn't always true.

10:14.46
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Mm hmm.

10:18.19
Ariel
but

10:17.53
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So.

10:19.80
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So the digital connections you saw as good. um But for you, do you feel like you've been digitally connected your entire life?

10:31.74
Ariel
Yeah, I think, you know, most of my life that I can remember, on you know, my parents were always like cameras were still new. And so my parents were always taking pictures and videos when we were kids, which, you know, now I'm grateful for because it's fun to see those. But so I think it kind of started with that. And then when I was in the but like middle school, I got a phone and eventually an iPhone and, you know, just kind of went from there. I don't really.

11:04.01
Ariel
Yeah, i've I feel like I've always had one.

11:06.19
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Okay. And Donna, when did you become digitally connected? Because obviously your generation didn't grow up with everything being digitally connected to you, but

11:16.01
donna c moss
Right, so like I was saying earlier, I grew up in a joyful free range time, where after school, we usually I usually had sports, and then we just roamed around and around free.

11:31.48
donna c moss
on our bicycles until the sun went down and our parents called us in for dinner. So there was something incredibly carefree about that. And I think my friends and I agree, it was ah something beautiful about it. we We had a very close connection. And partly because no one was looking for us. you know ah There was trust in the world.

11:58.56
donna c moss
So, but but the good news is that for me, I was an early adopter of tech, and that's one of the reasons why I can stay hip with the teenagers that I treat in therapy.

11:58.61
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So go ahead.

12:09.21
donna c moss
It's because it helped, the phone has helped me become more organized, which is a big thing that I ah need support with, so.

12:19.94
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So what I'm hearing is that you adapted to the new the new technology.

12:21.96
donna c moss
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

12:23.93
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
You didn't just say, I don't need that. You youngins, you actually took the time to to adapt and found a way for it to be helpful to you.

12:32.05
donna c moss
Yeah, well, I liked it, you know, because if you gave me a piece of paper, I would lose it. But on the computer, I i could i could thrive a little more in the work environment.

12:43.37
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
For my generation, we we because I'm in between you two, and We grew up ah with technology arising. So we had computers, and that was like a really big thing when I was younger, because IBM was just coming up and they were just really kind of.

13:00.59
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
they weren't in every household yet. And when I was I think in college is when, remember the old fashioned AOL internet, which Ariel, you wouldn't even know because you weren't born yet. But we used to have dial up when internet first came on. And it was like such a big deal. And not everybody could really have it. But um it wasn't an everyday thing. So I'm kind of the in between generation where I adapted because I was still young enough to be used to it.

13:26.68
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
A lot of people, your your generation, Donna, still aren't that hip on tech. Now I know a lot of people who are, um but...

13:33.68
donna c moss
I know thank God I am but a lot are not and it was funny because my father called himself a media expert and he couldn't click on a link even he was a book publisher but if you sent him a link he was like what is this yeah

13:48.06
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
wow.

13:51.44
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Well, he probably was a media expert for his time. You know, for real, they they did things the old fashioned way and still read newspapers and and and all that good stuff.

13:59.33
donna c moss
and marked up manuscripts that you had to send across the country this big by mail with a red pencil.

14:01.79
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yeah.

14:04.23
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Oh, wow. Oh, my God.

14:07.83
donna c moss
Yeah.

14:07.39
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yeah, you're right. They would have had to do that.

14:09.42
donna c moss
Yeah.

14:09.83
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Um, that's a big, big difference. Um, but I think that, um, the digital aspect is a big deal. Now you were telling me, uh, Ariel, I want you to repeat to the audience some of the things you were telling me earlier about, um, what you had to say about, you know, the digital era and, and just tell them what you were saying earlier.

14:30.76
Ariel
Um, you know, I think like I was saying, it can like separate and bring together, but I think, um, yeah, there's, there's with parents and like different generations trying to understand it. I think it's really important to like put in that effort to at least be willing to try and like understand and learn and adapt. Like we've been talking about.

15:00.79
Ariel
Um, and I think a lot of parents, I think can be a little bit scared from the technology because if you don't understand it, I mean, you don't know what is going on and where you're sending things and it can be a little bit scary. And I think, you know, being willing to learn from the generation that does have a better grasp on that is important and like trusting.

15:27.41
Ariel
The younger kids, even though they're younger, we have a different kind of understanding with it.

15:34.37
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I want to um ah dive into what I think is a related topic, and and that's dating. And i want I want us to talk about it in general terms from our generational perspectives.

15:45.84
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
so When it comes to dating, I'm going to bring up this topic because it's quite common um for teenagers right now to send out sexual pictures of their body parts to each other through texting. um Adults called it sexting. You guys don't call it that, but adults do. um It's quite common to be miniature porn stars, to to practically have your only you're only fans.

16:14.31
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
ah Edit Donna can you stop because you're making lots of loud voices right now All right, so I'm gonna I'm gonna cut that out and I'll start that question again So I want to go into another I think related topic um when it comes to dating um and when it comes to

16:19.92
donna c moss
Sorry.

16:36.42
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Sending out sexual pictures. um and I'm going to be real for the audience adults who don't realize this. It is extremely common and extremely average for teenagers to send pictures of their body parts to each other. um To be miniature porn stars through texting. That is actually very common for this current generation.

17:00.36
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Tell me what you were saying about that earlier Ariel.

17:06.27
Ariel
Um, I mean, in my experience, it was like you were saying, very common, mostly in high school, I think, uh, middle school to high school when people are still exploring and kind of like can hide behind the screen.

17:20.70
Ariel
And, you know, a big part of that is Snapchat where everything is temporary.

17:21.29
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Mm hmm.

17:25.85
Ariel
Um, so it seems like you can't save things and that seems safe, safer. Although we know now there's ways to save things and, you know, copy things, but. Um, you know, as I got older, I think it became less and less, but I think it was definitely something I remember in school trying teachers and, um, you know, like older people trying to scare us out of it. Um, and they would do it in ways that we couldn't really take seriously. Like they explained that, Oh, if you send one picture, it'll go to some random man in the middle of nowhere that you don't know. And I don't think people at that age.

18:07.56
Ariel
really cared about that. Like that wasn't really the part of it that was so problematic, although may be true, but I think it was more problematic that, you know, your peers would find out or people would talk about it or people would see copies of pictures. And I think that just created like a big, you know, fed into that kind of stigma of that not being okay. And people would feel really insecure. And I think, you know, I think a lot of that's changing as,

18:36.99
Ariel
like sex work has become more acceptable and there's less judgment towards it all. But as a kid, you know, you need to know the risks. And I don't think the parents really fully understood how to portray that to us.

18:50.11
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Okay, that's an honest answer. I think that that is ah still somewhat true, actually. um I think a lot of people in in your generation still don't get how how damaging it is to do that stuff. And because it's so common and it's like, if you try to do something later, it'll matter. We see it all the time when we look at older adults right now, and they don't think about the fact that you're going to be an older adult one day and you're going to want to not have things pulled out on you.

19:23.43
Ariel
Right.

19:24.08
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
um you know

19:24.88
Ariel
But now if you privatize it, you can make a lot of money.

19:28.73
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Well, that that is true. So we have a generation that thinks that you know showing all your body parts and doing stuff on screen is is good and OK. I know for my generation, it still wasn't. um And I'm assuming, Donna, that you are going to say the same thing.

19:46.98
donna c moss
Well, yeah, I mean, um I mean, we don't understand it at all, but I can see the result of of it. I mean, I had one of my earliest clients was hospitalized because her nude went around the school.

20:00.38
donna c moss
She was 15. She was hospitalized be out of mortification.

20:02.53
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Um Yeah

20:04.98
donna c moss
If that's a diagnosis, then she had it, you know, out of just humiliation. Doesn't mean that she's scarred for life, but a lot of kids I talk to have taken a hit on their self-esteem through no fault of their own just by getting too much feedback and too much attention on the wrong things.

20:26.67
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I I definitely

20:27.43
Ariel
Well, there's often a person on the other side of the screen taking pictures, and that's, they're at fault too. I don't think it's totally, you know, most cases it's like you trust somebody and you think that you can send something intimate and you're like exploring that realm of intimacy, but often it's the other person who messes it up for them and betrays trust and, you know, you have to be careful, but I think it,

20:57.01
Ariel
created a lot of trust issues with relationships. And I think I see that now you know for a lot of different reasons. But you see it even at my age, you know boys are really hard to trust. And usually it's boys, but you never know.

21:13.18
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Well, yeah, that's an honest answer. um And and i know that I know that you're speaking for a lot of people when you say the Ariel. It's definitely not just you. um

21:25.01
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Ariel, as someone who is part of that younger generation, what is it that you would like to say to the older generations, your your mother's generation in mind, the older people? What do you have to say to us?

21:44.05
Ariel
Um, you know, I think like I kind of said before, it's really and important for us to learn from you, but also for the older generation to be willing to see things from a new perspective and it like kind of the accepting of the fact that things are different and that we, you know, grow up in a different world. Um,

22:12.54
Ariel
And just the willingness to understand that and to, even if you can't fully understand it, understanding that it is different, whether you can kind of get on board or not.

22:24.76
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Why is it different? Why should we listen to

22:28.38
Ariel
Um, I think we have a different kind of level of connectedness, like whether, Maybe it was better or worse to not have a phone and nobody know where you are.

22:40.24
Ariel
There there is some like bliss to that, but I think as an overall community of a generation, I think we're closer knit than any other generation.

22:42.73
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Mm-hmm.

22:52.46
Ariel
Like I think we, I mean, I think social media has a big role in that, that, you know, if something happens, we can all talk about it online.

22:52.40
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Really, white why do you think that?

23:04.46
Ariel
And like, that's where a lot of people are reverting. to talk about things and to open up and to learn.

23:14.31
Ariel
And so I think we kind of get a lot of the same information from each other. And it's kind of this like fluid exchange of experience and information and all this stuff that, you know, I don't think you could have before having the level of social media that we have now. And yes, sometimes it's problematic. And that's, all you know, we have to have a balance. But I think that It brings us together in a lot of ways. And like I was saying with COVID, like I think that was a big part of it for me is that it felt like I'm feeling all these crazy things about what's going on in the world. And now I know that all these other millions of people my age are also feeling that way.

23:52.58
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Hmm. I think you made a very interesting statement there that you feel like your generation is more close, close knit than any of us. Um, because of the fact that you can talk about things online, whereas we could only talk about people talk about things on the phone or when we saw each other physically somewhere.

24:11.14
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Right, Donna?

24:12.48
donna c moss
Absolutely.

24:13.01
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And then, um, and yeah, you're right that that is something I hadn't quite thought about that way. So you just did a little mind shift on me.

24:22.37
donna c moss
The first thing I want.

24:23.22
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
The fact that you guys are able to communicate um specifically in that way. um And we couldn't. and And I think that you guys are, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, Ariel, I think that you guys are much more open to talking about issues than our generations were. Because we were always taught to suppress things and pretend. um I also think that you guys are taught to pretend just in a different way.

24:48.19
Ariel
Yeah, I definitely agree. And now it's like, you know, your parents and your family aren't the only people you have to talk to. If you have like about growing up and about life, like you have kind of more of a community to reach out to.

24:57.51
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yeah, yeah.

25:04.21
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
How do you feel about our youth having respect for their elders?

25:11.46
Ariel
Having respect for elders.

25:13.27
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yeah.

25:14.46
Ariel
Yeah, I think, you know, I think respect both ways is important. You know, I think there was like my mom was saying something wonderful about not knowing where anybody is and just being kind of in that moment.

25:18.70
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I think it is great.

25:27.97
Ariel
I think that a lot of us look for that and try to connect to that and, you know, disconnect to reconnect is saying that I've always known, but no, I just think that we both have things to learn both ways.

25:36.82
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Well, something I will say, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

25:46.04
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I agree. um I totally agree. And I lost my thought. So so I'll cut this part out. So um i think i think it's I think what you just said is is is key. i'm still yeah You guys are able to to communicate and connect in a way that our generations really couldn't, on not on that level anyway. We could connect with individuals. There's some of us that did, but as a generation,

26:18.29
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
No, but I also think that you have you brought a good point about the the eclipse. There was a first time that your generation was doing something together with like together together with other generations, too. And that was abnormal for your generation.

26:34.00
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
not it wasn't it's not ah It wasn't abnormal for mine or your mother's generation. And I think that's a ah difference that we should be considering and looking at i'm for those of us who are older and you know trying to understand. And I just want to reiterate Ariel's thoughts on we really as adults need to take the time to actually listen.

27:00.08
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
to the younger generation instead of talking at them. And it's something I'm constantly saying. you know you really are You're going to gain so much if you actually take the time to listen.

27:11.62
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Now, where Donna is different than her peers is the fact that she is a therapist and specifically works with young adults and teenagers. So she already understands a lot of these things, but she understands it because she's made a point to try and understand.

27:28.41
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Right, Donna?

27:29.42
donna c moss
Absolutely. That's correct. Yeah.

27:31.76
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And what do you have to say to your generation?

27:34.63
donna c moss
Right.

27:37.02
donna c moss
Well, I was thinking when you were talking about that kid name, I think his name is David Hogue out of the Parkland shootings. He's now like an adult, but he was present for that shooting and he's becoming more political.

27:54.16
donna c moss
And I think What kids are not understanding is that everything is political now. If you want to have a baby, if you want to vote, ah be able to to vote freely, if you want to live in a red state or a blue state, everything's political.

28:00.87
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
right

28:12.55
donna c moss
So you can't really shy away from it. You got to be engaged. Otherwise, we're all screwed.

28:20.14
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I kind of agree. I do think that that is a valid point. Everything is political now. um whereas Go ahead, Ariel.

28:26.18
Ariel
i I disagree.

28:29.67
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
OK, why?

28:31.66
Ariel
I mean, I think you politics are important.

28:32.56
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
well

28:34.40
Ariel
And I think you know you have to be aware of what's going on in your decisions. But I think that mindset of that everything is political is exhausting. And you know I think you have to be able to separate a little bit and like enjoy the simple things in life without turning everything back to politics.

28:56.63
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So when you say, um well, this is what I'm hearing and you can correct me if I want. What I'm hearing you say is that everything doesn't need to be political.

29:06.87
Ariel
I think, yeah.

29:06.80
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And what Nana is saying is that everything has become political, which to me are two different statements. um I am kind of in between both of you actually, not just generationally, but even on this topic. like I do think that um I understand why Donna would say everything is political now because she grew up at a time where everything wasn't turned into something political. um And right now everything is turned just about everything ah is turned into something political.

29:35.46
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
But I also see where you're coming from Ariel and that we do need to care about politics and we do need to make statements about things and not just sit by and accept everything. And and am am I correct?

29:46.79
Ariel
Yeah. Yeah.

29:47.60
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
and Okay.

29:48.54
Ariel
And I think politics right now specifically are very much on this topic of like ages because, you know, most of the candidates are not, don't have the understanding that a lot of the young voters do.

30:02.13
Ariel
And I think that's frustrating for a lot of people. It's like a huge gap in generation between who we're voting for and who we are.

30:11.28
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
i That makes sense to me. That that statement makes sense to me. I want to dive a little further, a little deeper into something, what you just said as as well. You said, it is exhausting to hear that. And I know that that sentiment is not just coming from Ariel. She represents probably most people in her generation with that frustration. The frustration of hearing the older adults saying, oh, everything's political now, but saying in a way that is brushing off ah brushing off issues like, oh, you're just being political instead of actually hearing what the issue is about.

30:46.18
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Am I correct, Ariel?

30:48.73
Ariel
yeah i think it's Yeah, I think it's quick to to turn things to politics before discussing it on its own.

30:50.20
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Is that where the frustration is coming from?

30:58.85
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Ah, okay. That's what I thought. And I understand where you're coming from with that. And that does make sense to me. Um, where, because ah in the, in the reason I'm saying this is because it's not just Donna who's going to say that just most people in her generation are going to say that because of the fact when they grew up, everything wasn't turned into something major.

31:18.95
Ariel
Right.

31:18.46
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Some things probably should have been that weren't.

31:21.85
Ariel
We actually just had this conversation, my mom and I.

31:21.87
donna c moss
well

31:21.55
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And, you know,

31:25.91
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Oh, you did I didn't know that.

31:27.98
Ariel
But just saying, yeah, go ahead.

31:28.51
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
But I think that I think I am understanding why. ah And ah this isn't just donna why people for a generation make statements like that.

31:42.37
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And I see where they're coming from. But I also see where you're coming from with the frustration of hearing that over and over again from people that are including that with being dismissive. I don't think that what she's saying is invalid. I think what she's saying is very valid because she grew up with a different experience. But I also think that your your generation's feeling about stop dismissing everything we're saying is also valid because, and and again, I think that comes from not understanding each other and the fact that When your generation hear statements like that from her generation, you guys do need to understand that they, they grew up differently.

32:16.70
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
They didn't grow up with everything being turned into something because we didn't have social media to blow it up.

32:22.66
Ariel
Right. That was the point I made to my mom was like we, you know, I've been hearing a lot of people telling us, oh, this is the most important election ever.

32:22.99
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
But at the same, yeah. Oh, okay.

32:33.84
Ariel
And I said to my parents, I think I've heard that my whole life. Every election, my entire life has been the most important election at that time.

32:39.19
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yeah. Yeah, that's true. And it's like crying well if you get tired of hearing it.

32:45.42
donna c moss
Right. And we also had a lot ah more benefits right after we wanted to end the Vietnam War. I was still too young to understand that. But after that, there were many years of of ah sort of quiet until then we had that guess like where you had to line up for odd even on your license plate to get gasoline. Do you remember that?

33:12.24
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I wasn't there.

33:13.77
donna c moss
That was like the biggest, that was like the biggest thing that happened to us. It wasn't terrible, but it was, uh-huh.

33:17.55
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
OK. I think I heard about it, though. I think I think i heard about it.

33:22.47
donna c moss
But thank God there were also lots of, um, long periods of quiet.

33:22.59
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So.

33:29.73
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Hmm, that's interesting. I don't think the younger generation has experienced that at all.

33:34.00
donna c moss
No.

33:34.02
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
They don't know what quiet is ah But again because of the digital connection and I'm talking to the audience right now I really want you guys to hear what's being said here and and just do some deep thinking This episode isn't about right or wrong about portraying anything.

33:47.24
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
It's just to plant some thought seeds Because I think many of you need to understand each other and you're not trying to. And I just want you to hear from a generation that's not your own. So no matter how old you are, you're hearing from a generation that's not your own between one of us. And I think it's important and we try to understand each other, at least make an effort at understanding each other, that's something that all three of us totally agree on.

34:09.51
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
You know, it's important to listen to others and try to understand their experience, even if you don't understand it. But the effort at understanding means that if you're making an effort to understand me, I'm probably more likely to listen to you.

34:22.45
Ariel
That is.

34:22.81
donna c moss
I'm also really worked worried and anxious about my for my kids like what if God forbid they need an abortion or they they get in a crossfire of gun violence or I mean there's tremendous fear now for parents.

34:22.87
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
One of the

34:39.66
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And what were you going to say, Ariel?

34:42.35
Ariel
Um, I was going to add on to what you were saying. Um, I think I've lost my train of thought, but sorry, what were you just saying before that?

34:51.11
donna c moss
Sorry.

34:51.79
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
That's all right. I'll delete this part.

34:58.15
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I was talking about um the fact that we should listen to each other.

35:00.26
Ariel
Oh, yeah. I think, you know, to add to that is like to remove hate from it all. Like, I feel like I try really hard to remove like judgment and anger when talking about politics.

35:17.73
Ariel
Like I think you, we all need to practice disagreeing and not hating each other for it. Like you don't have to understand and you don't have to totally agree, but that doesn't mean we have to like totally hate each other and not listen to each other at all because then no one's going to learn anything.

35:24.01
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Girl, can you say that like?

35:35.69
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I completely read like a million percent.

35:38.12
donna c moss
um amen

35:38.65
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
umm Can you teach that to some of these older adults who are supposed to be freaking adult? um who act like 10-year-olds when you disagree with them. It's just, it's very frustrating. um And and ah the crazy thing is I hear more, to me that's an adult mindset. That is a grown up mature, not adult, more so mature mindset is to think that way. I hear more of statements like that coming from your generation than mine or older. And I think that's a large problem too.

36:09.40
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
um and But I completely agree and I think you're totally right about that. um ah All three of us agree on that. you know we just we we It's okay to disagree. um It's not okay to be violent. I think that's where the line should be drawn.

36:25.51
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
because there needs to be a line when the disagreement turns into violence, then that is a different to me, it's a different topic. But just to to agree, disagree that I, I want to vote.

36:36.86
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I, I believe in when it comes to money, what would Republicans believe. Well, I believe when it comes to social stuff, what, do you know, the Democrats believe. OK, we can have those conversations, but it doesn't mean I need to kill you.

36:49.99
donna c moss
with

36:50.01
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
It doesn't mean I need to punch you in the face or try to.

36:50.76
Ariel
Right. Or even dismiss you, you know, even before it gets to violence, like if someone says, Oh, you, but if someone says, Oh, I don't agree.

36:54.22
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yeah, exactly.

36:57.26
donna c moss
Or take away your rights. Take away your rights.

37:02.24
Ariel
I don't want to have that conversation. I think that's where the problem starts is like, you should be okay with listening to something that's not your opinion and being a little bit outside your comfort zone.

37:12.52
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Right? But I want to add, it doesn't mean you need to have the same conversation over and over again. Once you've had that conversation with one you know two or three times with the same mindset, you've had it. But you're right. You need to at least make that effort. And a lot of people, they don't. They're just stuck in their ways. i And I do find that your younger generation Ariel seems to be a lot more understanding of that. But I also think that you guys were taught, your you were taught different values than we were.

37:41.90
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And you guys don't even see it. The older generation sees it the most because they've been around longest, obviously. But ah the values that we've all been taught, they are all different. And I'm speaking in general terms, of course, because our own household individual, you know, differences are playing to that too. But I'm talking about as a whole culture, all three of our generations are just dramatically been taught different things. I always like to put it this way. Donna's generation, they grew up on Earth.

38:09.66
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
They played in the grass. They were a part of the earth. Your generation is growing up on Mars. This other generation is growing up in a whole other galaxy. They're not even in our galaxy. Like that's just dramatically how different we're being raised as cultures. And I think all the more reason why we need to take the time to listen to one another. So if you're listening and you're young, take the time to listen to your grandma.

38:35.40
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
listen to your mom or your dad or whoever who's a different generation to see how things were for them. And if you're older, 40 plus, I would say, take the time to listen to somebody who's 23 or younger and hear their opinions. they They're probably gonna be very different than yours because they're growing up differently. But it matters that you actually try to listen. Because I'll tell you what, Donna, you can you can ah respond here on this one.

39:03.46
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
One of the reasons your patients listen to you your clients listen to you isn't just because you're a therapist, it's because you actually listen to them first.

39:12.16
donna c moss
Yeah, i say I think that's 100% right. it It does comfort you have to have an openness to begin these conversations and a willingness to tolerate some discomfort. Believe me, I don't like to argue. I don't get anything out of it. But once in a while, I can get uncomfortable or get passionate without, you know, any interference from extremes.

39:42.96
Ariel
It's why she married a lawyer.

39:47.58
donna c moss
Surrounded by lawyers.

39:50.54
donna c moss
Oh, yeah, I don't enjoy it.

39:50.72
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
All right Absolutely.

39:52.27
donna c moss
I really don't. But it's but it's good to have some confidence.

39:54.42
Ariel
But it's good practice.

39:59.63
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Well, I really enjoyed this conversation and and there's so many other topics that I did not go into today because it would have been too long. But um but I really and have enjoyed talking to two of you and thank you so much for being open and willing um to have this conversation.

40:15.61
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And um I'm hoping that you listeners did get something out of this.

40:21.56
donna c moss
Thank you Fatima.

40:22.97
Ariel
Yeah, thank you.