Why Do I Cut Myself?: Episode 72

🎧 Join Dr. Ed Daube, "The Emotions Doctor," as he shares 32 years of experience working with young women who self-harm, offering compassionate insights about breaking the cycle of cutting while finding healthier ways to cope.

Through expert perspective and deep understanding, Dr. Daube reveals why cutting isn't about suicide - it's about trading emotional pain for physical pain - while offering hope and practical guidance for both those who cut and those who want to help.

This essential episode explores:

• The critical difference between self-harm and suicide attempts
• Why physical pain becomes a distraction from emotional trauma
• How to recognize signs of distress before cutting begins
• The importance of non-judgmental support and understanding
• Why telling someone to "just stop" never works
• Building trust with those who self-harm
• Connecting with professional help while maintaining dignity

Perfect for: Young people struggling with self-harm, parents seeking to understand and help, school counselors and administrators, mental health professionals, and anyone supporting someone who cuts. Plus: Essential resources for crisis support and long-term healing.

To learn more about Dr. Ed Daube, please click on the link below.

http://theemotionsdoctor.com/

The resource Dr Daube spoke of during the episode is linked below.

988lifeline.org

Transcript

00:02.99
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
and welcome everyone. Today we have with us Dr. Ed Dobby. He is the emotions doctor. And he is out of California. He has over 32 years with the California Youth Authority as a senior psychologist and supervisor. He has worked directly and specifically with incarcerated women who hurt themselves, which is probably why we have him on the show. um cutting women Young women cutting themselves has become a very big issue in the US. And it's actually more common than most of you probably realize.

00:35.69
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So this particular episode is meant to address this and this episode is specifically for cutters and those who care about them, whether your parents, grandparents, counselors, siblings, whichever applies.

00:49.22
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
So how are you doing today, today ah Dr. Dalby?

00:52.46
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
I'm doing great. Thank you for asking. How about yourself?

00:55.62
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I'm good. I love talking to you. Your, your wealth of understanding is really not just knowledge, but understanding is really fascinating. So I'm looking forward to this conversation. Um, as in my usual fashion, I like to dive right in. So start off by just telling us what a lot of people around them don't understand. Why do young women practice self harm?

01:19.50
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Well, the short answer is that women who self-harm are attempting to substitute physical pain for emotional pain.

01:31.42
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
It's distraction is what they're doing. instead of it's It's difficult for them to feel the emotional pain because that's hurt that hurts and it's hard to deal with, so they substitute physical pain, which is more direct, clear, and in the moment.

01:38.99
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Right.

01:48.58
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
That's something that I think a lot of people don't understand because I will say that when people look at young girls, especially adults, and they look at young girls who are cutting themselves like, why is she doing that? Is she crazy? What's wrong with her?

02:00.76
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And hearing what you just said makes logical sense. Um, but I think some people still don't get it, but I, but you're right. That is, that is the short answer. But let me ask you this because there are lots of other substitutes for not dealing with our issues and not dealing with pain. Would you consider alcohol or any kind of drugs or so I'll just say substances cause they're all in the same category. Um, doing substances instead of dealing with the pain. Is that similar?

02:31.97
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
I would say it's very close because it's a distraction. When you use weed or you drink alcohol or whatever it happens to be, you're numbing your senses so that you don't feel whatever is going on emotionally.

02:35.76
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yeah. Mm hmm.

02:44.11
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
So yeah, it's probably very similar.

02:46.38
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yes, I want to point that out because I know many of the listeners are just like, oh, well, you know, I don't cut myself, so I don't know if this applies. Yeah, but you're doing this other stuff. It's the principles behind it still apply.

02:59.08
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
i'm And why is why do you think that there are, you know as I just said, there's weed, there's there's alcohol, there's all kinds of pills and drugs. There's a lot of things that people do to try to pacify the real issue instead of dealing with it or to try to ah ease the pain, so to speak. Why is cutting themselves very often the choice of harm?

03:29.64
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
To answer your question, if you think about it, when you hurt yourself, you bump an elbow, or you do something else physically, the pain is immediately immediate, it's intense, and it grabs your attention.

03:41.97
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Mm-hmm.

03:45.36
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Ah, OK.

03:46.41
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
And that's what's what's the reason why women will substitute physical pain for emotional pain. because it's very clear and present and it grabs their attention and it takes their attention away from the emotional pain and the issues that they're facing that's leading to the pain that they're feeling emotionally.

03:55.29
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Oh,

04:06.87
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
oh very good point. Very good point. I like that deeper dive into that.

04:10.44
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
And and there's there's something else that that's important to understand. when A woman cuts on herself or does whatever she does. She is doing the best she can in the moment in order to cope. It's not the best possible action to be taken, but it's the best action that she knows how to take, which is why she's doing it.

04:33.79
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Good point. Very good point. i'm I think that's a good point because, again, when it comes to the judgment of of women, that young women that do this, it can be pretty intense and, and trying to look at it and, you know, for people to try to understand instead of judge, I think it's more helpful.

04:53.10
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And I think the way you just explained it is explains it really well. Now let me ask you this, cause I know you have a lot to say on this is self cutting the same thing as a suicide attempt.

05:05.20
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
No, it's not.

05:06.85
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Why not?

05:08.06
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Well, a person who is attempting suicide wants the pain to end. They don't necessarily want to die. They want the pain to end.

05:18.22
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Mm.

05:19.27
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
And when they're self-cutting, they are you exercising the option to, in the moment, substitute, as I said before, physical pain for emotional pain. They don't want to die. They don't want their life to end. They just want the emotional pain to end. So if you think about it, if you think about the action of self-cutting, you want to intervene to take a look at what the issues are that are leading to the emotional pain.

05:50.80
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Hmm Right Mm-hmm

05:51.96
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
it If you think of it as attempting suicide, you're looking at it from a very different point of view, like they want their life to end. No, they want the pain to end. And anybody who attempts suicide, again, that's an option saying, I want the pain to end, but it's a it's on a different level from the person who is self-cutting.

06:14.54
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
If they were serious about attempting suicide, they would probably use a different method other than self-cutting and inflicting pain. They would take pills or they would do whatever they that they're doing.

06:22.35
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Mm. Good point.

06:26.59
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
They don't want to die.

06:26.31
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Mm-hmm.

06:27.43
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
They want the pain to end, the emotional pain, or they want to be distracted from that, which is why they've chosen cutting. Because very often, cutting is not lethal.

06:34.87
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Mm.

06:38.38
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yeah, you're right.

06:40.06
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
it's not going be It's not going to lead to them dying.

06:39.91
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
It leaves scars.

06:43.30
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
and And that's the difference, if that makes sense.

06:46.23
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Absolutely. i'm i think it's I think it's very important to point that out. um and And I know you do too, which is you know part of the conversations that we've had for people to understand that. Because I think sometimes in our, and and I'm speaking in general terms across America, in our quote unquote systems, especially school systems,

07:09.74
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
We tend to assume that if they're they're cutting that they're trying to commit suicide and we put them on suicide watch, which does nothing. That's like putting a band-aid on your elbow when you stub your toe. it it doesn't It doesn't make sense because it's not dealing with the issue at hand. um And i I've seen that.

07:30.46
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
And and and that's that's an important point. Because if I'm dealing with you in terms of you being suicidal, then I have to look at why you you are choosing that method to resolve whatever issues you're facing. If I'm looking at yourself cutting as an attempt to substitute physical for emotional pain, then I'm going to focus on what is leading you to feel the emotional pain in the first place and what those issues are.

07:59.48
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
So it's a mindset that I have when you're self-cutting, I'm looking at what what issues are giving you the emotional pain instead of focusing on you trying to take your own life. So my focus is different.

08:15.13
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Right and it should be because is that I just think it's important for listeners right now and especially those if you're working out of school in any capacity and you have to deal with with ah these young women to understand everything that Dr. Dabi just said, recognizing the difference. And you're not going to recognize that by staring at them and judging them. youre you're You might have to have a conversation. You might just have to listen. I mean, there are there are a lot of things. Is there a way that a school administrator can tell the difference?

08:49.80
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
That's a very interesting question and it depends on how sophisticated your school administrator is.

08:59.00
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Good night.

08:59.91
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
If your school administrator is psychologically minded and is and is can realize that the ah pain that the kid is in, the young woman is in,

08:59.74
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yeah.

09:10.37
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
then they can approach it non-judgmentally and indicate that they want to that they're there to help and they want to get the young woman the help that she needs. If it's a case of the kid hurting themselves and and helping them be secure, I want to say this very carefully, they may need to have them watched depending on what the kid is doing and how severely she's cutting on herself.

09:41.74
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
But it isn't the issue that they want to put them on suicide and just leave them there. You want to work with a kid and and get her help her understand that you're there to help her.

09:46.96
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
right that does make sense and i'm glad that you said that because i think it needs to be said because i think there might be somebody listening to who has actually seen this happen

09:55.61
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
And if you can get that across as a school administrator, that's the job you want to accomplish, if that makes sense.

10:11.38
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
where they don't have the right mentality in dealing with this stuff. And they, like you said, put them on suicide watch and just leave them there. And it's, again, you're putting a bandit on an elbow for what?

10:21.74
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Yeah.

10:22.28
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
And it's not solving anything. And I just want to make sure we address that too, because I do know that that is is an issue.

10:28.66
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
But yeah, if you're talking to school administrators, I can lay out for you some of the areas where the young women might be feeling some pain if that would be helpful.

10:28.45
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
doesn't get the press It doesn't get press, but it happens.

10:40.76
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yeah.

10:42.26
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Some of the issues where the young woman might have trouble dealing is she might be dealing with criticism from peers. She might be feeling worthless. She might be feeling overwhelmed by stress. There might be too much going on in her life in terms of her help her coping, or she might be bored. The important thing to understand is that the self-cutting is a sign that Alarm bells are going off in her mind and she's having trouble dealing with whatever the issue happens to be.

11:14.70
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Mmhmm.

11:19.31
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
emotions Emotions are signals that things are going on in our life that need our attention. That's what emotions are and that's why we have them.

11:30.73
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
So if your administrator understands that the self-cutting is telling the administrator, him or her, that this kid is attempting to cope with emotional issues, then the administrator can go in if the administrator has time and say, I want to understand. I know I can see that you're hurting and you're attempting doing the best you can to cope with it. Help me understand what you're experiencing from your point of view. What is going on with you?

11:59.91
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
that is so bad that you feel you need to cut on yourself in order to cope with it.

12:05.43
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Excellent, excellent point. And I'm so glad you said that. And I think a lot of people really need to hear what you're saying, um who work with these young women. Because i all of us who work with these young women, no matter what our capacity is, we all can make a big difference or we can make a big blunder of a difference. And listen if we listen to what you're saying, I think most of us can make better choices um and try to make a more positive difference or at least try to understand. I think that's so key.

12:35.73
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
um Right now, Dr. Dobby, I want you to talk directly to any anyone that's out there who this episode is about them. They're a cutter and then maybe they're doing it quietly.

12:47.24
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Maybe they don't want to talk about it to anybody. They're embarrassed, whatever. Talk to directly to, you know, a young woman right now who's in this situation.

12:57.65
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Okay.

13:01.66
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
If you're listening to this podcast, one thing I want you to understand right off the bat is that you're stronger than you think you are. By listening to this podcast, what you're telling me is that you are looking for some help to deal with the issues that are you're facing.

13:26.12
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Now, I don't know what those issues are, but I do know that you understand that the method you're using of self-cutting probably is not working the way you would like it to. And what I mean by that is this. When you self-harm, you substitute physical pain for emotional pain. And in the short term,

13:54.26
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
That works. The physical pain makes the emotional pain go away. However, as I'm sure you're probably aware, once the physical pain dies down, the emotional pain comes back. And now you're in a position where you've got the same emotional pain and you've got physical scars as well.

14:16.47
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
So what's important for you to again free help me what's important for you to understand is you are doing the best you can right now in the moment to deal with the emotional issues and the things that are going on in your life that are troubling you. Let me say that again.

14:38.34
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
You are doing the best you can in order to cope with the issues that you're facing. The challenge is that the method you're using isn't doing what you want it to do.

14:51.87
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Think of yourself as a project. You're in school and you're but you're given a project that you have to to complete for the next day. and you go home and you struggle with it, and you're just it's not working. You don't know how to do it. So you reach out and you ask for help. Once you get that help, now you can complete the project. When you think of yourself as a project, what I'm trying to explain is that you have issues you're facing. It might be issues at home. It might be issues at school. I don't know what those issues are.

15:28.99
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
But I'm telling you that there is help that's available for you. If you have access to a computer, you can Google 988LIFELINE.org. Now, I'm saying this because there are people there that it's a 24-hour line that can help you and give you some resources. That's the that's available to you.

15:59.55
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
I would also say that the issues that you're facing, you can learn to deal with. There are answers and there are resources that you can access to help you deal with those. Once you deal with those issues, the emotional pain will decrease and you won't need to resort to self-cutting in order to substitute the physical pain for the emotional pain.

16:31.98
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Again, let me emphasize, you're doing the best you can to deal with emotional issues. Dealing with emotional pain is very difficult. It's difficult for a lot of people and you're using physical pain to substitute for the emotional pain. The long-term solution is to deal with the issues that you're facing so that the emotional pain subsides and you can get on with the rest of your life.

17:01.52
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
I hope that makes sense.

17:03.35
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Absolutely, and thank you for talking directly to them. i i This is why I have you on here, so you can speak directly to them. My heart goes out to them and I want to give them all a big fat hug, um but sometimes it's good to hear from another voice other than just mine.

17:21.83
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
um what What can we, those of us who are around cutters, whether it's a niece, whether it's our daughter, whether it's someone at school or sister, whoever, what can those of us who are around them and we really care and we don't know what to do. What can we do?

17:39.66
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
The important point there is to be non-judgmental and to approach the self-cutter from a point of view of understanding.

17:51.11
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
And what do I mean by that that is this.

17:50.67
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yes.

17:54.47
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
When you start to intervene with somebody who's cutting, their first response or reaction is going to be, you don't understand.

18:05.49
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Right.

18:06.34
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
and From their point of view, they're absolutely correct. You can't know as an inch as a respond first responder, you can't know what they're going on what's going on with them from their point of view, and that's the job you want to accomplish. So what you can say is, I can see that you're hurting, and I don't know what's going on with you, but I really want to understand and I really want to help.

18:33.99
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
So please help me understand from your point of view the hurt that you're experiencing and what's going on with you. Because I really want to help. When you do that, you're being non-judgmental. You're giving them the opportunity to explain to you. And you're saying that no, you don't understand, but you want them to help you help them.

19:01.99
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Thank you for talking directly to them because I know that there are listeners right now who really need to hear what you have to say. And I think, um, as we've both really said in this episode, the biggest key is to, to don't approach it with a attitude of judgment because that's, uh, down.

19:17.06
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Now, the the areas where you want to listen for as a first responder is is the self-cutter dealing with criticism? are they not Do they feel like they don't measure up? Are they feeling worthless? Are they feeling hopeless? Are they feeling overwhelmed?

19:37.83
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Is there too much going on in their life? Now I mention all of those areas, not for you to necessarily say, is this what's going on? Is that what's going on? And question it, but just to listen for what, when she's talking to you, listen for the areas that may be troubling to her so that then you can offer suggestions rather than coming in and saying, well, is it this? Is it that? And here's what you need to do. That's not the way you want to approach it. You want to be a listener.

20:07.52
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
initially until you understand before you start giving advice.

20:12.72
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Yes. Thank you for saying it just the way you said it. Perfect. Um, I also want to let the listeners know that I'm going to add, uh, the web website that, uh, dr. Dobby just spoke of to the show notes or the podcast description. So the nine eight eight lifeline dot.org, I think you said, um, I will be adding that to, um, I'll be adding that. So all of you will be able to just click on it if it applies. And that way you can,

20:39.44
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
you know, not have to call anyone, you can actually look online and chat with someone if that's easier for you. So Dr. Dobby, tell everyone else, what else do you do?

20:51.72
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Well, I'm retired from the Youth Authority, so I have a blog with all kinds of information available.

20:59.21
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Stop, stop, stop. you You probably can't hear it, but you're, ah you it's, do you have any, do you have any other windows open in your computer?

21:03.96
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Oh, yes, I got it. Nope, I don't.

21:09.19
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Okay, it's it went really bad just now, but go ahead and answer. Just wait a second.

21:14.64
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Anyway, um I'm retired from the Youth Authority and I have a blog which is called theemotionsdoctor.com with all kinds of information about various emotions. So that's a resource that's available. You can go up to the index tab in the upper left-hand corner and pull down and you have access to all kinds of information about emotions.

21:39.62
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
And I do podcasting. That's about it at this point i'm because I'm retired and taking it easy.

21:46.07
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
I want to add to that. um I strongly advise that everyone go to his website and ah actually look at his blog. What I like about his blog that I find different from others is not only is it good, useful information, but He has topics. You can actually click on topics. You can look at topics about anger, about, I don't know, just name the emotion. He's got a bunch of different ones there. And you can see all the different blog topics that he has without looking through them by date. So I haven't seen too many blogs that are that organized like that. So I think it's good. And it's written in a way that is very simple and easy to read.

22:25.89
Fatima Bey The MindShifter
Um, and I strongly recommend that it's really, really good. I mean, the stuff that's on his blog, you would usually have to pay money for it to be able to get. So I think it's an excellent, uh, place for a lot of you to go. So if you don't want anybody to know that you looking up stuff, it's a great way to do it. Just go to his website and look at the blog. Well, uh, Dr. Dolby, thank you for coming on. It's been a ah pleasure speaking with you and I'm truly, truly hope that this episode is a life changer for someone. Thank you.

23:00.76
Ed Daube, Ph.D., 
Well, thank you for having me. I hope that the information has been helpful. And just in in closing, let me say again to anybody who's listening to this, you are stronger than you think you are. Help is available to it to you. You need to reach out and realize that there are answers to the issues with which you're struggling.