I'm Pissed Off! Don’t Tell Me to Calm Down! (Episode 81)

Dr. Ed Daube, senior psychologist with 32 years of experience at the California Youth Authority, joins us for an eye-opening conversation about the true nature of emotions and how to master them. Drawing from decades of clinical expertise, Dr. Daube dismantles the common myth that emotions control us, revealing instead how we can strategically work with our emotional responses.

The emotions cycle begins with our brain's constant scanning for threats—a hardwired survival mechanism. When the amygdala perceives danger, it triggers physical responses before we're even consciously aware of feeling anything. But unlike our cave-dwelling ancestors who faced primarily physical dangers, most modern threats are psychological. This is where mastery becomes possible: by physically stepping back and taking a deep breath, we create space to assess whether the perceived threat is real before choosing our response.

Dr. Daube makes a fascinating distinction between anger's validity and justification. Our anger is always valid because it reflects our perception, but it may not be justified if based on misunderstanding. He explores the spectrum from mild annoyance to full rage, noting how our capacity for rational choice diminishes as intensity increases. Particularly illuminating is his research on women's anger, revealing how society often forces women to find indirect ways to express and address legitimate grievances without facing labels like "difficult" or "emotional."

For teenagers struggling with anger management, Dr. Daube offers practical wisdom: if your anger creates more problems than it solves, it's time to step back and examine what perceived threats are triggering your reactions. The key insight? Nothing outside ourselves "makes" us angry—our perception creates the emotional response, putting the power and responsibility for emotional mastery squarely in our hands.

Ready to transform your relationship with anger? Visit emotionsdoctor.com or check out Dr. Dalby's book "Beyond Anger Management: Master Your Anger as a Strategic Tool" on Amazon to continue your journey toward emotional intelligence.

To learn more about Dr. Ed Daube, please click on the link below.

TheEmotionsDoctor.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Dr. Ed Dalby
• 1:03 Understanding the Emotions Cycle
• 3:34 Anger and Perceived Threats
• 8:16 Women's Anger in Society
• 12:53 Developing Emotional Mastery Skills
• 19:05 Helping Teens With Anger Issues
• 22:50 Mind Shifting Moment and Closing

Transcript

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 0:01

Welcome to MindShift Power Podcast, the only international podcast focused on teens, connecting young voices and perspectives from around the world. Get ready to explore the issues that matter to today's youth and shape tomorrow's world. I'm your host, fatima Bey the MindShifter. Hello and welcome everyone. Today we have with us Dr Ed Dalby, and he is the emotions doctor. He is out of California, he is an author and he also spent over 32 years with the California Youth Authority as a senior psychologist and supervisor, and he is, in particular, an expert on this topic, and he is we're going to take a real an expert on this topic. We're going to take a real deep dive into this topic and you're going to love listening to him. How are you doing today, dr Dhabi?

Ed Daube Ph.D: 0:51

I'm doing great, Fatima. Thank you for having me.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 0:54

Thank you for coming on again. I like to dive right into it. Let's start off with.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 1:03

Explain to us, mr Emotions Doctor, what are emotions? Well, that's an interesting question and it's a topic that most people do not understand. Emotions are tools and there is what's called the emotions cycle, and let me explain how that works. All of us are constantly scanning our environment for threat. We're hardwired to do that, and when we lived in caves that worked, because all threats out there were going to kill us. They were survival threats. Most of the threats today are psychological threats, and that's different.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 1:37

So the way the emotion cycle works is we automatically scan our environments for threats and when we perceive a threat, subconsciously, the amygdala sets us up for what's called fight or flight and then, when that happens, you feel the emotion and your body is ready to deal with whatever the threat it happens to perceive. That's the emotion cycle, that's the way it happens to perceive, that's the emotion cycle. That's the way it works, and that part of the cycle is subconscious and we have no control over it, and because of that, the myth is that our emotions control us and we don't control them, and it's only true for the initial reaction to the perceived threat. Now, since we are far evolved beyond our cave people, the emotion cycle continues because now we have the option of taking a look and assessing what's going on, whether the threat is real or not. What's going on, whether the threat is real or not? So part of the emotion cycle is you perceive the threat, you react unconsciously and then you have to train yourself to take a step back physically and take a deep breath which lowers your arousal level, and now you can move into mastering that emotion. Let me state that again Once you feel the emotion, you then manage it by taking a step back physically from the situation, which gives you physical safety, and then taking a deep breath.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 3:19

Once you do that, now you can move into emotional mastery, because now you have the option of using the thinking part of your brain, which is the thinking part of your brain, the cerebrum, and you can now ask what is going on? How real is the threat? When you do that, you have the option of either continuing to act as if the threat is real if it is, or choosing not to take action. That's mastering the emotion. So that's the emotion cycle, when you understand that every emotion has a specific message. The message of anger is there's a threat out there and I can overcome that threat by throwing enough force at it. Anger prepares you for war, as opposed to an emotion like anxiety, where the message is there may be a threat out there and you have to assess whether or not the threat is real and whether you want to take action. So every emotion has a specific message. When you understand the message, you can choose to assess whether the threat is real and what you're going to do about it, if that makes sense.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 4:25

So I want to clarify something. So you say a perceived threat when it comes to anger. So what if I'm angry about an injustice?

Ed Daube Ph.D: 4:34

Okay, that's a good question. You have to ask yourself whether or not the injustice is your perception that something's wrong or is in fact a real threat, whether the injustice is real or you've imagined it, because you misunderstand what's going on in the situation, because you've misperceived what's going on. In other words, you initially see it as an injustice, but there is no injustice, in which case you choose to step back, stand down and do nothing. But if you look at it and there's a real injustice, now you have to decide what can I do to eliminate it? And then you can take the action that you choose to take, if that makes sense.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 5:17

It does. I want to use an example. You disrespected my mother and now I'm angry and I want to punch you in the face.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 5:23

Where's?

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 5:24

the threat? Where's the threat in that?

Ed Daube Ph.D: 5:26

The threat is to your value. That says my mother deserves respect and you need to give it to her. Now the question is the question is have I done something to disrespect your mother? Because I misunderstood what she was saying, or because maybe she provoked it and that's what you have? To look at.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 5:50

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 5:52

Yeah, because if she's done something and I'm reacting to that, perhaps I'm overreacting, perhaps I'm not reacting strong enough. So that's what you have to take a look at. What is the initial action that led me to disrespect your mother? Where did it come from? Was it my misperception, or was it something that your mother actually said? Because maybe my anger at your mom is justified or maybe it isn't, and that's what needs to be assessed, if that makes sense.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 6:25

Absolutely. And I asked you that so that you could clarify that a little deeper. Because, although I know what you're saying is true, that it is perceived threat, sometimes people are like, well, I have a right to be mad and they don't realize where the threat is in that anger. So you just broke that down within the example that I, a small example that I gave. So you just broke that down within the example that I, small example that.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 6:45

I gave yes, but, fatima, they do have a right to be angry. Let me explain that Anger is always valid in that it's based on how you perceive your world. It isn't necessarily justified because it may be a misperception, and the actions you take when you're in anger also may not be justified because they may be too extreme, but the anger is always valid.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 7:11

The anger is valid, but just the piece that I was talking about was the perceived danger. Yes, or the threat rather talking about was the perceived danger.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 7:18

Yes.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 7:19

Or the threat. Rather, you used the word threat For those who didn't make that connection. I wanted to make sure that they could connect the dots that you were laying out there. Let me ask you this, because you already explained what anger is Are there levels to anger?

Ed Daube Ph.D: 7:36

There are levels to anger. You can be angry or you can be annoyed, which is a lower level of anger, because you're annoyed at a threat. You can be angry at a perceived threat, which means you're ready to go to war, or you can be enraged, which means you're ready to kill somebody, proverbially. So there are different levels to anger.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 7:58

And I think it's important to point that out, because sometimes people think everything is one thing and it's not. And it's important, if we're dealing with someone who's angry, or angry ourselves, to understand that there are levels and that makes a difference on how we handle it.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 8:14

I was going to say. There's also something about the different levels. When you're annoyed, you have the option of choosing a different response. When you're angry, you have a choice excuse me of choosing a different response. When you're enraged, you're not thinking to a point of making a different response. You're going to take action. When you're enraged, you're out of control.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 8:40

You're right. You're right. I want you to tell me what you told me off air, the story that you told me off air, which I think demonstrates so many things related to this topic. What did you learn about women and anger?

Ed Daube Ph.D: 8:58

Years ago, when I was writing my book on anger and the book, by the way, for people to be aware of it, it's called Beyond Anger Management Master your Anger as a Strategic Tool is available on Amazon and I wanted to write a chapter on women's anger. So I went on to LinkedIn, to a woman's forum, and I asked specifically. I said look, I'm a man and I want to know what happens when you, as a woman, express anger. Responses was I, as a woman, cannot express anger directly, because if I do, I get labeled a bitch, or I get labeled a feminazi, or I get labeled whatever it happens to be, and it was true for women in a variety of situations.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 9:50

I got a response from a woman who was a. She owned a company and she said it was difficult for her to get angry with her employees because they didn't take her seriously. And my response to these women was that, first of all, they need to validate their own anger and not go along with the labels that people are saying no, you as a woman can't get angry. The issue there, by the way, is that men don't know how to deal with women's anger. That's the issue.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 10:21

But having said that, women do not know how to deal with women's anger.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 10:31

So what they?

Ed Daube Ph.D: 10:31

do is they attempt to marginalize her, devalue her, label her, with the goal of getting her to not express her anger. Because in our society, women are, generally speaking, are trained to be comforters, are trained to be healers, are trained to be people who come in and smooth things over, not directly, to be assertive. That's considered a man's emotion. It isn't, by the way, but that's the way our society looks at it. So what I suggested to women if you're in a situation, as a woman, where you can't express anger directly, because either you're an employee and there may be some consequences to you getting angry, you need to express your anger indirectly. And what I mean by that is this when you validate your anger saying I, as a woman, have a right to be angry, and you do, and there's a real threat here. For example, let's say, a co-worker or a boss is stealing your work and presenting it as his.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 11:37

And that happens.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 11:38

It happens, then what you do is you need to take a project management approach to it, and a project management approach is okay. What's the issue? What's the threat? What are my options for dealing with it? Indirectly, and then choose the best option to deal with the threat the person who's stealing your work without directly getting angry, because getting angry may subject you to consequences you don't want. So what that does is it validates the anger, it gets rid of the threat and it keeps you safe.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 12:12

I love the fact that you reached out to a group of women to say hey, what pisses you off? Exactly, and they gave you the real responses. And I just liked the fact that you came from a position of trying to understand women instead of talking at us. And this is one of the reasons why I like talking to you is because you have that mindset where you actually try to understand people and not just say I have a degree, so listen to me. I think it's beautiful that you just overall, this is your mindset and how you approach everything. Let me ask you this For those who are dealing with anger management and they know they get angry can we stop ourselves from getting to the point of anger?

Ed Daube Ph.D: 12:53

The answer is yes, but it takes practice. And what you want to think about here is learning to ride a bike. When you learn to ride a bike, your dad or mom whatever didn't just put you on a bike, or maybe they did, but you had to learn. I have two grandkids, one's three and one's five, and they just learned how to ride a bike and how to pedal. But it involved falling and involved being uncomfortable and learning how to get the muscle memory, but it's a skill and once you get the skill, it's there. So, when you're learning to deal with anger or any emotion, you're developing a new skill. And the way you do that is this you can take any emotion, whatever it happens to be, whether it's anger or it's anxiety, or it's disgust or whatever it happens to be. When you feel that emotion physically in your body, force yourself to take a deep breath and take a step back from the situation. Now you may say, well, wait a minute, dr Dobby, when I'm happy you want me to take a deep breath and take a step back. Yes, that's exactly what I want you to do, and the reason I want you to do that is because you are training yourself to learn emotional mastery. And emotional mastery says I feel the emotion, I take a step back from the situation, I take a deep breath to calm myself down. When you learn that skill now, when you experience anger and you need to learn where in your body you experience it Some people they feel warmth in their head, some people feel tightening of the muscles you need to learn what your specific physical reaction to anger is. And when you feel that you take a deep breath which calms you down psychologically, you take a step back from the situation, which creates physical safety between you and the other person, and then you can say what's actually going on here, how real is the threat? If the threat is indeed real, then you need to plan what you're going to do to neutralize it. If it's not because you've misperceived, perhaps you say to the person what did you mean by what you said? Or what was going on, what led you to do that? So now you have information, you can say oh, I misunderstood what was happening, so I'm going to let the anger go.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 15:24

I'll give an example, not from anger, but from anxiety. I taught in a college here locally in California and I was leaving work to go to my class and I experienced what I recognize as anxiety. My stomach was churning and so I thought about it. I said wait a minute, what's going on here? My anxiety is telling me there's a potential threat in the future, a maybe threat. So I said is everything okay at home? Yep, is everything okay for my lecture? Yeah, when I decided everything was okay, I chose to ignore the physical sign, which was anxiety. I said I don't know, maybe it's gas or something, I don't know. But that was mastering the anxiety.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 16:15

Now, with anger, if I'm getting angry, I need to take a deep breath, take a step back and say what is the perceived threat? The perceived threat is you have disrespected me, that you are actually disrespecting me because you may not. So when I find out from you that what you said and what you meant was not really disrespecting, then I can say oh, okay, and I can calm down and we can talk about it. If you did disrespect me, the threat is real and I need then to deal with you and say what do you mean by that? What was going on with you? And I didn't like what you said. Does that make sense?

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 17:04

Absolutely so what I'm hearing I'm going to paraphrase some of what you said was ask questions first instead of coming to whatever person or thing you're angry about or mad at. Ask questions first and make sure that what you perceive is in fact true, because sometimes we misunderstand people. We get angry because we feel like that was disrespectful and they were raised totally different than you and didn't see it as disrespectful, wasn't even thinking about disrespecting you at all. I've seen those type of situations a lot. I think that's probably one of the top ones where people feel disrespected when no disrespect was intended. Sometimes there was, and I think that's different. But I think first we need to assess do they really mean to disrespect me or are they really just coming from a different place?

Ed Daube Ph.D: 17:50

Exactly so what you might then do when you ask questions is you might get an apology, as opposed to going to war, and now you're going to get slugged.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 18:01

Right, exactly, you get different results. That's a very good point.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 18:05

Now that segues into this next question Can we have a logical conversation with somebody who is absolutely pissed off in the moment and the quick answer to that is no, and the quick answer to that is no, and the reason for that is if they're enraged, they're not going to be in contact with you, they're not going to be logical, and what you need to do is you need to step back and give them space and give them a chance to calm down. Now, telling them to calm down probably is not going to be very effective.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 18:39

It'll do the opposite.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 18:41

It'll do the opposite. But you're right, you're right. So you back off, give them space and maybe say we'll come back to this later.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 18:50

Yes, and this is also true in relationships. It's true with parents and children, it's true with coworkers, it's true in almost every format you could think of. When someone's that enraged, don't try to have a logical conversation because they're not in a logical state of mind. Give them space, let them come back down to earth then try to have a conversation, as basic as that is. People really need to hear that, because I see it all the time. They're trying to have a logical conversation when a person's, you know, ready to explode or just they're just really angry about whatever the topic is, and I'm glad that you pointed that out.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 19:30

Now you can acknowledge their emotion and you can say I can see that you're really upset with me right now and I'm going to validate that, but I'm going to leave at this point. We'll come back to it.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 19:44

Do you have any really quick tips for, let's say, we have a high school student that is constantly getting in trouble for bursts of anger at school, because that's a reality for quite a few kids. So what can they do right now?

Ed Daube Ph.D: 20:05

The kid or the person dealing with the kid, the kid, the kid. If you're a kid and your anger is causing you more problems than you want and not solving the issues that you're trying to deal with, than you want and not solving the issues that you're trying to deal with, then you need to take some time to learn what anger is and how to deal with it, and we've talked about that. Now you need to realize that you're getting angry, is isolating you and probably causing you more problems with people in school and your peers and all of that, and your anger isn't working. So you need to step back and say what is it that's pissing me off so much and approach that and attempt to deal with that directly, if that makes sense.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 20:58

Yeah, I think the key thing you said is it ain't working, it ain't working. If something ain't working, why do you keep doing it? Only crazy people keep doing the same thing and over and, over and over again, expecting to get the same results.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 21:08

That's exactly correct.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 21:10

So I think, while, if you're listening, and you do have an issue with anger, while you're in a calm, logical state right now, assess, assess exactly what he just said. What makes you so angry when you're in the classroom and somebody says something? Is it because you feel disrespected? Deal with the core issue of what's making you angry, because then you can get over it instead of staying under it and move on to something else.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 21:38

Right, fatima, let me clarify that a bit for you, because when you say what makes you angry, that's a myth, and most people believe that something outside of themselves is what's causing their anger, and it isn't. What's causing the anger is their perception of threat. So, instead of asking what's making me angry, what is the threat that I perceive going on that I'm getting angry at? And the reason why I clarify that is because it puts the responsibility for the anger back on the teen. Good point, very good point.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 22:16

It's their perception of what's going on, which may or may not be accurate, and that's where the assessment comes in. I have a right, as a teen, to get angry, but I also have the responsibility of taking a look at my perceived threat and whether or not it's real, and then I have the responsibility of saying the action I've chosen to take. Are they dealing with a threat or not? Are they making it worse?

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 22:42

Very, very good point. Now, Dr Dobby, tell them what else you do and how people can find you.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 22:50

Well, the best way. Since I'm retired, I'm not doing much of anything actually, except going on podcasts and trying to help people deal with emotional issues. But the best way is to go to emotionsdoctorcom and that's my blog with all kinds of information on emotions, and you can access that by going to the website and pulling down the index tab and clicking on the information of the specific emotion that you want. The other way is to go to Amazon and take a look at my book on anger specifically. There's a ton of useful information in that it's an audio book, it's a physical book, it's all on Amazon. And again, the book is called Beyond Anger Management Master your Anger as a Strategic Tool, and it's on Amazon.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 23:46

Well, dr Dalby, thank you for coming on and having this conversation and I hope that this episode plants some thoughts in those who really need to grow their garden of balance. And, once again, thank you.

Ed Daube Ph.D: 24:02

Thank you for having me. I hope it's been effective.

Fatima Bey The MindShifter: 24:05

And now for a mind shifting moment For everyone listening out there. If today's episode was about you I'm talking to you right now, while you're in a calm and logical state I want you to go back and listen again to this entire episode and begin to implement some of the things that Dr Dalby talked about, because when you're angry, you're not going to be logical and you're not going to. You'll just be in your feelings. But the truth is, if you really want to start solving the problems of getting the results and after effects of your bursts of anger, you really want to stop. If that's, you, go back and listen to this episode again and begin to implement everything that he said, because you can overcome it, instead of staying worldwide platforms, so you, too, can be a part of the conversation that's changing young lives everywhere, and always remember there's power in shifting your thinking.